Are Messianic Jews Christians?

[Rival]

All other Christians have misunderstood the Bible.

And your sect just happens to be the one that interprets it right every single time

 

[Teritos]

Nope. I am correct. Mathew 5 17-20:

"17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."

I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

If you have fulfilled your employment contract, are you still bound by the contract?

Fulfillment = Completed and finished
When was the law fulfilled? At the cross.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Okay, Messianic Jews, Muslims, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Bahaites are all Christians now. They all believe in Jesus and in the crucifixion. All other Christians have misunderstood the Bible.

Of course, in these clear verses you can interpret something else.

Wow! How many logical fallacies can one pack into such a short post?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

If you have fulfilled your employment contract, are you still bound by the contract?

Fulfillment = Completed and finished
When was the law fulfilled? At the cross.

Quoting a small section of a verse that you do not understand does not help you. Fulfilling the laws did not make them go away. He was very clear about that if you read the entire passage.

I can quote over 12 times that the Bible says "There is no God" by quoting out of context as you did. Does that prove that God does not exist? By your "logic" it does.

 

[Teritos]

Quoting a small section of a verse that you do not understand does not help you. Fulfilling the laws did not make them go away. He was very clear about that if you read the entire passage.

I can quote over 12 times that the Bible says "There is no God" by quoting out of context as you did. Does that prove that God does not exist? By your "logic" it does.

Well, if you read the letters of the apostles, you would understand that what I said is exactly the same as what they said. As the apostles say: "We are free from the law"
That is the whole point, that we are set free from the law, that is why Jesus died on the cross.
For if the law were still active, then Christians would still be under the curse, for the law requires death for transgression. No one can keep the law, therefore God Himself came and fulfilled the law to silence the law.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Well, if you read the letters of the apostles, you would understand that what I said is exactly the same as what they said. As the apostles say: "We are free from the law"
That is the whole point, that we are set free from the law, that is why Jesus died on the cross.
For if the law were still active, then Christians would still be under the curse, for the law requires death for transgression. No one can keep the law, therefore God Himself came and fulfilled the law to silence the law.

I haver seen them. They allow gentiles to not follow some of the minor laws. I have no problem with this because unlike you I understand that Christianity is a smorgasbord religion. Different sects are always choosing what parts of the Bible to follow and what parts not to follow. That there are so many possible interpretations when one does this is why there are thousands of different sects of Christianity. Your interpretation is no better than that of others since any Christian is forces to ignore parts of the Bible. One can defend almost any belief by using the Bible.

 

[rosends]

There is only one definition for the term Christian, and a Christian is someone who lives according to the new covenant. If even Paul, who saw Jesus, condemned such, then that is clear enough. These Messianic Jews are nothing new, they already existed in the time of Paul and he distanced himself from them.

I get the sense that others would disagree with your definition. There are other terms in your post that similarly beg defining.

 

[Teritos]

I get the sense that others would disagree with your definition. There are other terms in your post that similarly beg defining.

The definition I am giving is from the New Testament. But okay, everyone should think as he wants. We will see in the end who has eternal life and who does not.

 

[Muffled]

In my opinion, according to the Bible, they are not Christians. They still live in the old covenant, they circumcise themselves, they celebrate the Sabbath and they also keep other laws of Moses. They still live like a servant of God although the new covenant has made Christians children of God. They try to keep the law even though it is not possible. Many Messianic Jews do not even believe that Jesus is God. The funny thing is, some Messianic Jews themselves admit they are not Christians.

I believe for a Christian there is no law against keeping the law of Moses. A Christian isn't required to keep all the law but in all cases Jesus decides for us what to keep and what not to keep.

 

[Muffled]

Any one that has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit today is a Christian.

I believe a person could keep Islamic law if He had the Holy Spirit to authenticate it.

 

[Muffled]

As far as I'm concerned, anyone who believes Jesus was the Jewish messiah and believes the Christian Testament is reliable is a Christian.

I believe those people are nominal Christians.

 

[Teritos]

I believe for a Christian there is no law against keeping the law of Moses. A Christian isn't required to keep all the law but in all cases Jesus decides for us what to keep and what not to keep.

The question is why should someone keep the Law of Moses if according to the NT it does no good? Or are you of the opinion that someone can get recognition before God by keeping the law?

A person who circumcises himself for religious reasons is obliged to keep the whole law, and for him the grace of Jesus is over, unless he repents, according to the bible.

 

[Psalm23]

In my opinion, according to the Bible, they are not Christians. They still live in the old covenant, they circumcise themselves, they celebrate the Sabbath and they also keep other laws of Moses. They still live like a servant of God although the new covenant has made Christians children of God. They try to keep the law even though it is not possible. Many Messianic Jews do not even believe that Jesus is God. The funny thing is, some Messianic Jews themselves admit they are not Christians.

I believe a Messianic Jew can be a Christian and also believe there are Christians who are Messianic Jews. If some of them do not identify as Christian than that is only some. It doesn’t mean all Messianic Jews think this way. There are Christians who may have trouble seeing God as their Father and them as children of God. Often this is due to insecurity or fear. It doesn’t make a Christian any less a child of God. I have been there. I am still learning of God’s love for me.

 

[firedragon]

In my opinion, according to the Bible, they are not Christians. They still live in the old covenant, they circumcise themselves, they celebrate the Sabbath and they also keep other laws of Moses. They still live like a servant of God although the new covenant has made Christians children of God. They try to keep the law even though it is not possible. Many Messianic Jews do not even believe that Jesus is God. The funny thing is, some Messianic Jews themselves admit they are not Christians.

So if you circumsise you're not a Christian?

 

[SigurdReginson]

You know, there just never seems to be a true Scotsman in the christian world...

 

[SigurdReginson]

So if you circumsise you're not a Christian?

Well, that makes a lot of sense, actually. The first 30 years of my life as a die hard christian was all just one big lie because I was destined to become an apostate due to my "circumstances." My dad still thinks he's a christian, though, so I better go warn him that the jig is up.

 

[SigurdReginson]

I believe a Messianic Jew can be a Christian and also believe there are Christians who are Messianic Jews. If some of them do not identify as Christian than that is only some. It doesn’t mean all Messianic Jews think this way. There are Christians who may have trouble seeing God as their Father and them as children of God. Often this is due to insecurity or fear. It doesn’t make a Christian any less a child of God. I have been there. I am still learning of God’s love for me.

Hmmm... Then that begs the question, does someone need to identify as "christian" to be saved? I would think that a title is just a title.

 

[Psalm23]

Hmmm... Then that begs the question, does someone need to identify as "christian" to be saved? I would think that a title is just a title.

I think it depends more on their why. Is it because they don’t believe doctrines foundational to Christianity or is it a different reason.

My point wasn’t to say that one has to use the title Christian to be saved. One may use a different title and still believe core doctrines of Christianity and have received Jesus.

 

[John1.12]

I believe a person could keep Islamic law if He had the Holy Spirit to authenticate it.

Not sure what you mean ?

 

[SigurdReginson]

I think it depends more on their why. Is it because they don’t believe doctrines foundational to Christianity or is it a different reason.

There are actually quite a few Messianic Jews that are in my area that I've talked to. What I got from them was that they were people who took the christian bible very seriously, and they wanted to get closer to god. Most of these people I would typically classify as Evangelical/Baptist types.

They seem just as devoted to Jesus as any Christians I've ever known; I think they hunger for more than what they get at church, though, which tends to be a rehash of the same concepts over and over while glossing over the context and reason for the events that unfolded in Jesus' time.

I think many, too, are interested in Jewish culture and it's interaction with early Christianity. That's what I got from it
Talking to them at least.