Are Mormons Christians?

[bible truth]

No, you do. You just refuse to see what we believe.

Hey beckysoup,

I asked the general question of why there are so many Mormons on this site. One of the LDS church members answered that many Christian forums will not allow Mormons on their Christian forum sites. Do you wonder why? I would love to explain why Evangelical Christians do not accept Mormons as brothers and sisters in Christ. We can go through the essential doctrines that divide us. The person and work of Christ divides us. I plan to continue to share the Biblical Gospel through this Thread and the debate with Jonny. Please continue to read and participate. - BT

 

[Comprehend]

Hey SoyLeche,

Please be honest with all of us. If the saving gospel is found in the bible alone, the entire faith of the LDS church is false. If you remove Prophet Joseph Smith's visions of the visit of God the Father and His Son, and the visit with Angel Moroni, the LDS church would cease to exist. The Bible alone gospel is a different gospel that is found through the LDS church (defined by the sacred writings held by the LDS church).

Either the historical christian church is apostate and in need of restoration through another testament of Jesus Christ (Book of Mormon), or it is not apostate. Truth is either found in the Bible alone for all things pertaining to faith and practice. Or, the Bible alone is insufficent revelation. Things are much clearer than you are taught to believe. - What points do you disagree with? - BT

Is this a really long winded way of saying you don't have an answer to what Soy posted?

 

[Katzpur]

It's very difficult to understand official LDS doctrine. I have spoken to many Mormon missionaries, as well as older elders in the LDS church over a 14 year perioid. Some of the answers that I get on this site are different than the ones I received from Mormon missionaries and other LDS memebers. It is not my hobby to follow the changes of doctrine of the LDS church. Please be patient with me.

Well the last update to the Doctrine & Covenants was in 1978, so I don't believe there's really much to keep up on.

Let’s back get to our scenario of the missionaries. Let's say after missionaries left, the northern and southern groups were completely wiped out from a Tsunami.

Half of the northern group received the bible only gospel and perished from the tidal wave. The other half of the northern group rejected the gospel according to scripture alone and also perished.

The southern group heard the "Fullness of the gospel”. Half of the southern group received Joseph Smith as a true prophet of God. The other half rejected the "Fullness of the gospel” and perished.

Where would the four groups of people end up? Help me out on 2nd, 3rd heaven in regards to Mormon doctrine. What about the second chance someone gets in the next life? How does baptism of the dead work out in this scenario? - BT

I'll try to respond to this tomorrow, BT. Unfortunately, I just got home from the emergency room. My son was in an automobile accident and totaled his car. Fortunately, he wasn't hurt anywhere near as bad as he could have been. I'm pretty beat, though, and am just not up to trying to explain this tonight.

 

[Bishka]

. Do you wonder why?

Because they are closed-minded bigots who could care less about their fellow brothers and sisters in Christ? Honestly. To call us a cult is a bit far out there, but is worse -- to say we follow a 'false Jesus'. That's ridiculous; people don't even take the time to learn what we actually believe and have stuck their heads to far in the sand to care anyways.

I would love to explain why Evangelical Christians do not accept Mormons as brothers and sisters in Christ.

That's why I don't believe in the Evangelical heaven -- it's too elitist. God is not an elistist.

 

[bible truth]

To answer this question you have to know what the word christ or christian means. Jesus Christ is not the son of God's name it's a title. It means Anointed Savior, Jesus means Savior and Christ means Anointed. So the son of Mary was the anointed savior and the son of God no less. So those that followed him and his teachings were called Christians at Antioch (Acts 11:26) or "anointed ones". Which is what the word Christian means. These first Christians were the Israelites. Since the Apostles were only to go to the Israelites that were scattered abroad (Matt. 10:5-6) the only people that could call themselves the "anointed ones" or Christians were the Israelites that believed on Christ.

So in short unless you are an Israelite you cannot be a christian since Christ himself said, "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Matt 15:24). To learn more about who the Israelites are check the link below.

I have to disagree with you my friend, because the Bible says a true jew is one who is converted and united to Christ. There are no jew or gentile, male or female for those who are united to Christ. - BT

Romans 2
A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God.

 

[Katzpur]

I asked the general question of why there are so many Mormons on this site. One of the LDS church members answered that many Christian forums will not allow Mormons on their Christian forum sites. Do you wonder why? I would love to explain why Evangelical Christians do not accept Mormons as brothers and sisters in Christ. We can go through the essential doctrines that divide us. The person and work of Christ divides us. I plan to continue to share the Biblical Gospel through this Thread and the debate with Jonny. Please continue to read and participate. - BT

I think we understand quite well why, BT. Fortunately, all Christians do not share your opinion. I have never in my life been treated with as little consideration and respect as on some "Christian" forums I've visited.

 

[bible truth]

Because they are closed-minded bigots who could care less about their fellow brothers and sisters in Christ? Honestly. To call us a cult is a bit far out there, but is worse -- to say we follow a 'false Jesus'. That's ridiculous; people don't even take the time to learn what we actually believe and have stuck their heads to far in the sand to care anyways.



That's why I don't believe in the Evangelical heaven -- it's too elitist. God is not an elistist.

Exactly! the evangelical heaven is a different destiny than the LDS heaven. - BT

 

[bible truth]

Well the last update to the Doctrine & Covenants was in 1978, so I don't believe there's really much to keep up on. [/font]

I'll try to respond to this tomorrow, BT. Unfortunately, I just got home from the emergency room. My son was in an automobile accident and totaled his car. Fortunately, he wasn't hurt anywhere near as bad as he could have been. I'm pretty beat, though, and am just not up to trying to explain this tonight.

Okay, life is a truly gift of God! I'm glad your son is okay.

 

[Bishka]

Exactly! the evangelical heaven is a different destiny than the LDS heaven. - BT

The evangelical view of heaven doesn't exist; and it's not just the LDS that see it this way, there are other Christians groups that believe similar -- that we are all going back. It unforutante that your elitist view have lead you to the belief that because one didn't accept Christ while on earth they are damned to hell. It's a sad view really -- I feel sorry for all your family that hasn't accepted that view, that they have to deal with you believing that they are going to hell.

 

[Gentoo]

the evangelical view of heaven doesn't exist.

I wouldn't go quite that far, we're not 100% sure if Heaven exists at all, let alone different views of it. I agree with what you said before, that God is not an elitist; I can't see how he could be and still be omnibenevolent.

 

[bible truth]

Bible truth? you asked for my posts so you could respond to them.... remember?

I'm still waiting...

Thanks Comprehend for your continual interest. I'm not intentionally avoiding your questions. I have to leave and watch "LOST" with the family right now. Could you please restate your questions on another post?

Thanks again for your patience,
BT

 

[Comprehend]

Thanks Comprehend for your continual interest. I'm not intentionally avoiding your questions. I have to leave and watch "LOST" with the family right now. Could you please restate your questions on another post?

Thanks again for your patience,
BT

No, I won't restate them. I posted them once already and you asked for the post numbers. I gave you the post numbers like you asked and then you failed to respond. You have the post numbers, I am sure you are capable of finding them.

Please try to respond to my posts... filibustering isn't going to work, I am persistant.


While you are at it, you might try answering Soy Leche's question too...

You seem to conveniently ignore difficult posts...

 

[bible truth]

The evangelical view of heaven doesn't exist; and it's not just the LDS that see it this way, there are other Christians groups that believe similar -- that we are all going back. It unforutante that your elitist view have lead you to the belief that because one didn't accept Christ while on earth they are damned to hell. It's a sad view really -- I feel sorry for all your family that hasn't accepted that view, that they have to deal with you believing that they are going to hell.

Hey becksoup,

I just believe in what God reveals in the Holy Bible. I have faith that God cannot lie. I try hard to stay away from personal opinions. I believe in the God who reveals Himself in the Bible alone, because He is the True and Living God. God would be completely just, righteous and holy if He sent everyone to Hell. This is biblical truth revealed in Scripture alone. Please read my last post with my debate with Jonny. - BT

 

[Gentoo]

God would be completely just, righteous and holy if He sent everyone to Hell.

How can God be completely just, righteous and holy if he sent everyone to a place of eternal torment...? That's the complete opposite of just and righteous at the very least.

 

[Katzpur]

BT,

This is the fourth time I have asked you the same question. Would you be so kind as to answer me this time: Where does the Bible say that God has revealed himself in the Bible alone?

Your third cousin twice removed, in Christ,
Katzpur

 

[Comprehend]

BT,

This is the fourth time I have asked you the same question. Would you be so kind as to answer me this time: Where does the Bible say that God has revealed himself in the Bible alone?

Your third cousin twice removed, in Christ,
Katzpur

hey, at least he has actually responded to *some* of your posts... I just get the run around...

 

[Gentoo]

hey, at least he has actually responded to *some* of your posts... I just get the run around...

He hasn't responded to any of my comments and questions, few as they may be, they raise good points. Of course I'm biased since I made the posts

 

[James the Persian]

Eastern Orthodox: The Holy Bible and their additional sacred writings (help James!).

It's not the Bible and anything. It's the Holy Tradition of the Church. Part of that, the most important part, is the Biblical canon (collecting the whole canon into a single book was a very late development for us, though, it tended to be kept in several separate volumes and the book on the altar to this day is the Tetraevanghelion - just the four Gospels). The Bible as opposed to the Canonical Books, then, is not really an Orthodox, but a western concept.

Anyway, after that aside, our position is not really much different to Rome's. We have Holy Tradition (in theory both oral and written but I don't know of any teaching that hasn't been written down somewhere during the history of the Church), which includes the Canonical Scripture, against which all other teachings must be weighed. We don't have extra sacred writings (well more than you as the Reformers removed books from the canon) but we do have the writings of the Fathers, canons of the Ecumenical Councils, Liturgies, etc. The only place where I think we differ fro Rome is on the issue of development of that Tradition. We believe that the faith was delivered once to the saints and was complete and hence we guard it against any innovation. They appear to believe the faith delivered to the saints was a seed that the Church could develop. Other than that (and our view of the heirarchs) I don't see any difference between us.

James

 

[Comprehend]

He hasn't responded to any of my comments and questions, few as they may be, they raise good points. Of course I'm biased since I made the posts

hey, we are all biased towards our own posts. I am a firm believer in Kierkegaard's radical subjectivity theory.

I have a theory of my own as to why Bible Truth isn't responding but I'll keep it to myself for now.

 

[Comprehend]

BT,

This is the fourth time I have asked you the same question. Would you be so kind as to answer me this time: Where does the Bible say that God has revealed himself in the Bible alone?

Your third cousin twice removed, in Christ,
Katzpur

Cousin,

I believe I can help you with that:

2 Cor 13:1
1 ... In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

OOPS! that isn't the one, how about this one:


Ezek 37:16-19
16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and [for] all the house of Israel his companions:
17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou [meanest] by these?
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which [is] in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, [even] with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.

Oh rats...