Are Mormons Christians?

[Comprehend]

Hey Comprehend,

I didn't think my views matter to you guys that much. My views and opinions are wothless. God's objective truth is all that matters. Here is the pure milk of the Word for you to contemplate until we continue next week. - BT

John 8

When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."

The Pharisees challenged him, "Here you are, appearing as your own witness; your testimony is not valid."

Jesus answered, "Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going. You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one. But if I do judge, my decisions are right, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me. In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two men is valid. I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me."

Then they asked him, "Where is your father?"
"You do not know me or my Father," Jesus replied. "If you knew me, you would know my Father also." He spoke these words while teaching in the temple area near the place where the offerings were put. Yet no one seized him, because his time had not yet come.

Once more Jesus said to them, "I am going away, and you will look for me, and you will die in your sin. Where I go, you cannot come."
This made the Jews ask, "Will he kill himself? Is that why he says, 'Where I go, you cannot come'?"

But he continued, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins."
"Who are you?" they asked.

"Just what I have been claiming all along," Jesus replied. "I have much to say in judgment of you. But he who sent me is reliable, and what I have heard from him I tell the world."

They did not understand that he was telling them about his Father. So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him." Even as he spoke, many put their faith in him.

To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

They answered him, "We are Abraham's descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?"

Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. I know you are Abraham's descendants. Yet you are ready to kill me, because you have no room for my word. I am telling you what I have seen in the Father's presence, and you do what you have heard from your father."
"Abraham is our father," they answered.

"If you were Abraham's children," said Jesus, "then you would do the things Abraham did. As it is, you are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. You are doing the things your own father does."
"We are not illegitimate children," they protested. "The only Father we have is God himself."

The Children of the Devil

Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me? He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."

The Claims of Jesus About Himself

The Jews answered him, "Aren't we right in saying that you are a Samaritan and demon-possessed?"
"I am not possessed by a demon," said Jesus, "but I honor my Father and you dishonor me. I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge. I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death."
At this the Jews exclaimed, "Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that if anyone keeps your word, he will never taste death. Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?"

Jesus replied, "If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and keep his word. Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad."

"You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!"

"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

um.... thanks. I am very familiar with the bible... What does this have to do with my list of questions? You still haven't answered them but you sure have posted a lot in this thread for the lame excuse you gave me a bit ago. Kind of makes me think you are still dodging my questions since you seem to be able to respond to everyone but me.


They aren't going away. Try to answer my questions please. Everyone watching can see what you are doing...







PS. The scripture you quoted in John Ch. 8 where Jesus explains that he has two witnesses (Himself, and His Father) disproves the trinity. If they were one God as you claim, it would only be one witness...

 

[Comprehend]

Please don't take things so personal. It really doesn't matter what I say. God's truth stands alone, apart from all of our views and shortcomings. The Apostle Paul declared that we know in part. My Scriptures and post applies to everybody who is not united to Christ. Those united to Christ (converted) is only known by God. Therefore, Scripture posts also apply to unconverted Christians who attend protestant churches too. Here is my systematic theology in a nutshell. We are all born into this world united to Adam. By God's pleasure, purpose, and sufficient grace, God removes certain sinners from their union with the 1st Adam, and unites them to the second Adam through faith alone. Our union to Christ is central and essential. Please study Romans Chapter 5. I also believe in Remnant Theology... a remnant chosen by grace throughout redemptive history.

In summary: There are two groups of humanity:

1. Those united to the First Adam
2. Those united to the Second Adam

You are aware that "Adam" just means "man" right? It is Hebrew, and literally Adam (man) was made from Adamah (ground).

 

[Comprehend]

I don't think you've answered just what "Historical Biblican Christianity" is yet. Why not help everyone out and tell us?

he hasn't actually answered any of my questions except for the one about our name and he didn't tell the truth about that one.

 

[Gentoo]

he hasn't actually answered any of my questions except for the one about our name and he didn't tell the truth about that one.

Well, then you're not the only one being ignored

 

[bible truth]

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to play word games with you. If you think I've missed the post, just tell me where and let's move on. My original answer stands. (Also, may I suggest that we separate the two debates in which we are now engaged. If you have a problem with one of my answers in our other debate, please say so there, and not here.)

The only reference to Adam in Romans is found in chapter 5, verse 14, which states: "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come."

Are you telling me that "the figure of him that was to come" is referring to a second Adam? If so, I disagree. I believe it is a clear reference to the Savior, Jesus Christ.

Hey Katzpur,

I decided to respond on some of the Threads today as compared to waiting for Monday. Mormonism is easier for me to discern than I originally thought. In the Summary of Beliefs from the LDS.org site, I would state that 10 out of the 13 points of LDS beliefs are not true according to Scripture alone. I will strongly suggest that you do not understand the biblical gospel since you have no idea why Jesus Christ is called the second Adam. Let's keep moving forward. - BT

Romans 5
Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. Not only so, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.

You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

Death Through Adam, Life Through Christ

Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned— for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.

But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.

Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 Corinthians 15
But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. ...


If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven.

 

[bible truth]

You are aware that "Adam" just means "man" right? It is Hebrew, and literally Adam (man) was made from Adamah (ground).

Please see Post 446.

 

[nutshell]

Hey Katzpur,

I decided to respond on some of the Threads today as compared to waiting for Monday. Mormonism is easier for me to discern than I originally thought. In the Summary of Beliefs from the LDS.org site, I would state that 10 out of the 13 points of LDS beliefs are not true according to Scripture alone. I will strongly suggest that you do not understand the biblical gospel since you have no idea why Jesus Christ is called the second Adam. Let's keep moving forward. - BT

Romans 5
Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. Not only so, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.

You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

Death Through Adam, Life Through Christ

Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned— for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.

But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.

Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 Corinthians 15
But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. ...


If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven.

Since you don't both to answer any of our questions. I'll just say: You're wrong.

 

[bible truth]

1. Why he insists on insulting our religion by refusing to use our proper name “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints” but takes “Jesus Christ” out of our name and calls us “The Church of Latter Day Saints”

• 2. What he means by “extra-biblical revelation”. Since the revelation received by Moses was “extra-biblical revelation” yet he accepts it while rejecting ours. In fact, all revelation recorded in the bible is “extra-biblical” as the bible didn’t exist. The very nature of revelation means that it is adding to what already existed. Each time God revealed something to man, it added to what was already there. Before Moses, there were no 10 commandments, after Moses, there were. What criteria does Bible Truth use to determine which revelation he accepts and which is “extra-biblical”.

• 3. How the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints has “changed the gospel”.

• 4. Whether Bible Truth was lying when he said that the Roman Catholic version of Jesus Christ was mutually exclusive of his version of Jesus Christ? Or was he lying when he later told a Catholic that RC’s, EO’s, and Protestants all have the same Christ (it’s just mormons who don’t).

• 5. Where in the Bible does it teach the Trinity. Specifically, his professed understanding that:

because I didn’t find that in the bible.

• 6. Why he claims that all he needs can be found in the bible and then proceeded to use websites rather than scriptures to make his argument.

• 7. What is the “Historical Biblical Church”?

• 8. Since all Christian faiths have different doctrine, practices, and beliefs, while BT has claimed that only one church can be “right”. Which denomination of Christian church is the “right” one?

• 9. Since all bible translations are different and there can only be one correct translation of the word of God, which translation of the bible is the “right” one? What evidence does he have for this?

• Which denomination does BT belong to? (and is he Pentecostal).

• Has BT actually read the Book of Mormon?

• Why BT continually feels the need to ask Mormons to “be honest” as if he assumes we are liars.

• Is bible truth a user that has been previously banned under a different user name who used to write posts in letter format, signing each and who also insisted on calling our church by the same wrong name just like Bible Truth does? Hmmm, I wonder…

• What would a short checklist of criteria be to qualify as a Christian according to Bible Truth?

• Bible Truth claims to have been “granted salvation” in his late twenties. I would like to know how he knows/knew that he was granted salvation. Did he receive “extra biblical revelation”? How does he know his revelation was from God and not an evil angel of light?

• Why he believes Mormons are called Mormons because of the angel Moroni? (since he claims vast knowledge about our church yet is not aware that we are named Mormons after a guy named……. Mormon!!!) who would have thunk it.

• I have posted earlier that I apologize for not using the name of “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints”. My intent was to reduce typing. I’ve always known friends who have used LDS to describe themselves. Do you mind if I use LDS, or do you want me to type “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints” for now on?
• Extra-Biblical is a description of all other revelation apart from the Old King James Bible that you currently use. Biblical revelation means revelation contains in the 66 books that make up the Holy Bible. Do you disagree with this definition?
• The LDS gospel is a different gospel than what is proclaimed in Scripture alone. Please follow the discussions that I have with Katzpur, Jonny, and Aqualung.
• The Roman Catholic and Protestants (evangelicals) believe and worship the same God. We both worship the Triune God revealed in the Scriptures. We both worship Jesus as God (2nd person of the Triune God). We worship God the Holy Spirit too (3rd person in the godhead). The LDS Faith rejects Jesus and Holy Spirit as co-equal to the Father. The LDS Faith rejects Jesus and Holy Spirit as God.
• The Trinity is a good one to debate. I’m sure we can start a Thread on this topic alone. The Triune God can be found in Genies and throughout the Bible.

Genesis 1:26: Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, [a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

Acts 5 -Ananias and Sapphira

1Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. 2With his wife's full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles' feet.
3Then Peter said, "Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God."
5When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard what had happened. 6Then the young men came forward, wrapped up his body, and carried him out and buried him.
6.Sola Scriptura means the final authority of truth is the Holy Bible. Sola Scriptura does not mean that other works of God is not used for edification of believers. All things are tested in the light of Scripture. I read many books from godly men throughout church history. God has worked throughout redemptive history.
7.Historical Biblical Christianity is just a description of Biblical Christianity that is historical.
8.Ephesians Chapter 4 will state that there is only one Christian Faith.
9.All Bibles are translations with error. Read the preface of all bible translations. However, the good translations are completely trustworthy.
10. I don’t belong to any particular denomination. I’m simply a Christian. If you want to understand my distinctive of Christianity, I guess you can study Reformed Theology. I would suggest that you study the Westminster Confession and the London Baptist Confession to get an overview what I believe God has revealed in Scripture alone.
11.I have read parts of the Book of Mormon. I have also read parts of the Quran.
12.I don’t mean to call you a liar. The LDS member has a difficult task to proclaim that historical biblical Christianity is apostate. The mission of the LDS church is the restoration of historical Christianity. In addition, you want to call us apostate in one sense, but want us to call you Christian brothers and sisters on the other hand. Do you understand what apostate means?
14.Historical Biblical Christianity is a different gospel than the LDS gospel. Therefore, our understanding of salvation is completely different than yours.
15.You can let me know why the LDS church is also considered Mormons. I know of Angel Moroni; therefore I assumed that is where the name Mormon came from.

BT

 

[bible truth]

Summary of beliefs

Joseph Smith was asked about the basic beliefs of the Church. He summarized the teachings and doctrines in 13 basic points which are known as The Articles of Faith of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. They are:

1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.
3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon this the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

____________________________________________________________________
Dear Mormon friends,

I am proclaiming that 10 of the 13 points of faith above are not true according to the Holy Bible. You guys are making it impossible for me to answer of all your great questions. I don't have the personal time to participate in 3 ‘one on one debates’ with Jonny, Aqualung, and Katzpur, debate on the Thread of "Are Mormons Christians" created by Katzpur. Comprehend and me also are having our own discussion at the same time. I need your help if you want to continue our discussions. Can someone from the LDS church please create a new Thread where we can debate the LDS "Statement of Faith" above? I will only participate on the newly created Thread. I can only take one point at a time to post my biblical response to refute it. Let’s call the new Thread “LDS 13 points of faith verses Sola Scriptura…or something like that, okay?

My goal is not to convert you to what I believe. My goal is to objectively show you that a faith defined by the doctrine of Sola Scriptura will proclaim a different gospel and different Christ than what is declared by official teaching of "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints". At the end of our debate, you will have to either believe in the restoration of the apostate historical church, or reject this distinctive proclaimed by your church. At the end, you will either embrace the claim of “apostolic succession” made by the LDS church, or you will reject this essential claim.

Written with the love of Christ and united in Him by faith alone,
BT

 

[Aqualung]

Why don't you tell us WHY they are not in keeping with the Bible instead of just saying that they aren't? Statements need to have (in this case Biblical) support or the discussion cannot go anywhere.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

Not all Christians follow 'the doctrine of Sola Scriptura'. No one can proclaim that others will be pursuaded by an argument which is based on something that is, itself, under debate.

 

[Comprehend]

Please see Post 446.

I don't see how that post addresses my question.

 

[Bishka]

Bible Truth, where are you backing out of these debates? They were your idea in the first place.

 

[Comprehend]

• I have posted earlier that I apologize for not using the name of “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints”. My intent was to reduce typing. I’ve always known friends who have used LDS to describe themselves. Do you mind if I use LDS, or do you want me to type “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints” for now on?

I see, so why did you decide to type "the church of latter day saints" instead of simply using "LDS" or "Mormons" like everyone else? You actually chose to write the longest name of the three options but take the name "Jesus Christ" out. If you were honestly going for shortest, you would have used "LDS", but you didn't...

Please be honest. Admit what you were doing. It makes zero sense to say you wanted to reduce typing yet didn't use "LDS" which you admit that you have friends who use "LDS" to describe themselves.

Of course I don't mind LDS, of course, you knew that all along. You just wanted to write something a lot longer that got your point across which is that you don't think our church IS the "Church of Jesus Christ." Is that so difficult to admit?

• Extra-Biblical is a description of all other revelation apart from the Old King James Bible that you currently use. Biblical revelation means revelation contains in the 66 books that make up the Holy Bible. Do you disagree with this definition?

No I don't disagree. I just wanted to know what you meant by it. So you choose to accept what man has deemed to be God's word. You choose to tell God when he is done speaking to His people? You do agree that it was a group of men who gathered together and decided what writings should be included in the bible and which should not.

If you are comfortable deciding to put your faith in a group of men who decided to tell God what books could be scripture and that God was no longer allowed to reveal His word to man anymore then go ahead...

The LDS gospel is a different gospel than what is proclaimed in Scripture alone. Please follow the discussions that I have with Katzpur, Jonny, and Aqualung.

I have read a lot of what you have said but all I have seen are assertions. You have not yet actually stated how the LDS gospel is wrong according to scripture.

The Roman Catholic and Protestants (evangelicals) believe and worship the same God. We both worship the Triune God revealed in the Scriptures. We both worship Jesus as God (2nd person of the Triune God). We worship God the Holy Spirit too (3rd person in the godhead). The LDS Faith rejects Jesus and Holy Spirit as co-equal to the Father. The LDS Faith rejects Jesus and Holy Spirit as God.

Then why did you claim that the three groups did not worship the same God? Either way you lied because you said it both ways. I am wondering, why you lied.

That is correct, the LDS faith does not consider Jesus and the Holy Ghost as "co-equal" to the Father. Just like the bible says.

No, you are wrong. The LDS faith does not reject Jesus and the Holy Ghost as God.

The Trinity is a good one to debate. I’m sure we can start a Thread on this topic alone. The Triune God can be found in Genies and throughout the Bible.

It's been done dozens of times I imagine but what is one more... you can find a Godhead who are one in spirit and purpose but you can't find a single God with split personalities in there. You really would need some "Genies" to conjur that one up.

Genesis 1:26:

Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, [a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

Yes, that verse would indicate separate individuals when it says "us" and "our" wouldn't it, rather than a single entity as the trinity doctrine claims.

The word "God" in that verse is "elohiym" which means: the Gods. It is the plural form of "El"

'elohiym {el-o-heem'}
Hebrew: noun masculine p
Possible Definitions:
1) (plural)
1a) rulers, judges
1b) divine ones
1c) angels
1d) gods
2) (plural intensive - singular meaning)
2a) god, goddess
2b) godlike one
2c) works or special possessions of God
2d) the (true) God
2e) God
'elohiym {el-o-heem'}
Hebrew: noun masculine p
plural of 433;
Strong's Number 430
Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament- 93c

Acts 5 -Ananias and Sapphira

This scripture has to do with the trinity how?

6.Sola Scriptura means the final authority of truth is the Holy Bible. Sola Scriptura does not mean that other works of God is not used for edification of believers. All things are tested in the light of Scripture. I read many books from godly men throughout church history. God has worked throughout redemptive history.

My question was pointed at the fact that you use other material to argue your points for you while claiming that everything you need is in the bible. If everything you need is in the bible, then why do you not use the bible to argue your case? If the Bible is the final authority then use the bible. If I were arguing a case and there was existing Supreme Court precident and I chose to use a local disctrict court opinion, I would look like a moron and it wouldn't be very persuasive.

If your entire argument is contained in the bible, then why not stick with quoting from the bible?

7.Historical Biblical Christianity is just a description of Biblical Christianity that is historical.

Why do you capitalize it like it is the proper name of a church?

8.Ephesians Chapter 4 will state that there is only one Christian Faith.

and that is correct. But it doesn't answer my question. For example, is baptism required or not?

Ephesians Chapter 4 says it is:

Eph 4:5
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Ephesians Chapter 4 also says this:

Eph 4:11-13
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:


Which church do you know of that has all of the above?

9.All Bibles are translations with error. Read the preface of all bible translations. However, the good translations are completely trustworthy.

LOL. I can't believe my eyes. You just said that you believe the bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly.

:biglaugh:

I don’t belong to any particular denomination. I’m simply a Christian. If you want to understand my distinctive of Christianity, I guess you can study Reformed Theology. I would suggest that you study the Westminster Confession and the London Baptist Confession to get an overview what I believe God has revealed in Scripture alone.

That's wierd. Let me translate that. You say that you believe only what the bible teaches, and then you suggest that for me to understand what you believe, I should go read two things that are NOT in the bible?

Call me crazy, but why wouldn't you suggest I go read the bible to understand what you believe?


***Continued***

 

[Comprehend]

11.I have read parts of the Book of Mormon. I have also read parts of the Quran.

That would be a no?

You aren't being terribly specific. My guess is that what happened was you were reading something anti-mormon which directed you to specific verses and that is about all you have read. Am I far off?

12.I don’t mean to call you a liar. The LDS member has a difficult task to proclaim that historical biblical Christianity is apostate. The mission of the LDS church is the restoration of historical Christianity. In addition, you want to call us apostate in one sense, but want us to call you Christian brothers and sisters on the other hand.

uh... close enough for now.

Do you understand what apostate means?

I am knot very good at nowing the meanings of wurds but I gots a book that helps's me.

Apostasy
Encyclopedia of Mormonism, 1-4 vols., edited by Daniel H. Ludlow (New York: Macmillan, 1992),, p.56-58

The English word "apostasy" derives from the Greek apostasa or apstasis ("defection, revolt"; used in a political sense by Herodotus and Thucydides); it is mentioned in a religious context in the Septuagint and the New Testament (e.g., Josh. 22:22 and 2 Chr. 29:19; 2 Thes. 2:3 states that an apostasa must come before the second coming of Christ). It can mean the intransitive "to stand away from," or the active "to cause to stand away from." Thus an apostasy can be an active, collective rebellion or a "falling away."

14.Historical Biblical Christianity is a different gospel than the LDS gospel. Therefore, our understanding of salvation is completely different than yours.

Is this an answer to the Christian checklist question? If so, how?

15.You can let me know why the LDS church is also considered Mormons. I know of Angel Moroni; therefore I assumed that is where the name Mormon came from.

There was a guy named "Mormon" who abridged the records Joseph Smith translated, that is also the reason why it is called the Book of Mormon. The name was given to us by people who hated us. The point of the question however was to inquire how you could claim to know so much about us yet get something so simple and obvious, wrong?


You didn't answer this question:

• Bible Truth claims to have been “granted salvation” in his late twenties. I would like to know how he knows/knew that he was granted salvation. Did he receive “extra biblical revelation”? How does he know his revelation was from God and not an evil angel of light?

 

[Comprehend]

Bible Truth, where are you backing out of these debates? They were your idea in the first place.

I have a guess.

 

[Comprehend]

bump.....


Once again, I am waiting for Bible Truth to respond....

POST 454 and 455 please.

 

[Comprehend]

bump.....


Once again, I am waiting for Bible Truth to respond....

POST 454 and 455 please.

bumpity bump.


where you at BT? Doesn't the bible compel you to respond anymore or was that just a one time thing?

 

[SoyLeche]

bumpity bump.


where you at BT? Doesn't the bible compel you to resond anymore or was that just a one time thing?

I think he expects you to start another thread.

 

[Wandered Off]

*quack*