Are most people fighting over the same God?

[Feldurmac]

I've never really been into organized religion, instead sticking to being a follower of God himself. It seems that all the great prophets of this world tried not to label what they were doing they just did what divinity sought them to do.

It seems that at the core Christianity, Judiasm, Zoroasterianism, Muslim faith, Mormonism, and the like really are after the same thing: to lead a good life and to follow in the light of 'God', no matter what name they choose to call him.

It seems to me somewhat sad that all of the greater spirit's followers need to be so divided. Why the need for the dozen names, Ahura Mazda, Allah, Jehova, etc etc.. What makes sense to me is the primary reasons for this division is cultural only. The greater spirit realized that we had divided ourselves by cultural differences and understood that every person would react to it's divine message differently. For instance, maybe someone raised under the cultural influence of Europe might look at things different from someone raised in Persia.

Bottom line I'm curious how people feel about this division, if they feel its neccessary? If they believe in a deeper interconnect of various religions or not? And any other thoughts that can be added to this topic... naturally people who are religious in one form or another might have something more to say on this topic than someone who doesn't believe in any form of God (etc), but I would love to hear from anyone's point of view. Thanks.

 

[blackout]

Are most people fighting over the same God?

I would say there are as many versions of god as there are people who conceptualize them.

Some are more similar, some less.

People of the SAME religion are more likely to have very similar god concepts,
but still each individual will "hold to" a personally nuianced version all their own.

The main problem I think,
is that so many people want to insist that THEIR version is right,
and everybody else should ... needs to!..."believe"/see like them.

In general,
I'm not crazy about organized religion either
(for many reasons),
but "labels" in general can be lots of fun
when you create them yourself...
(like a kid with a label maker!)
as long as they aren't used as some kind of a "stamp"
to say "this is this" and "that is that".

Hope that all made sense.

PS ... the Universal Unitarians have a unique way of "overcoming" all these differences,
while still celebrating life together.
YOu might want to check out their sub forum. :rainbow1:

 

[LuisDantas]

Myself, I feel that the very concept of God has become a hurdle. It turns out to be a unified name for sometimes wildly differing understandings of the Sacred.

Not to mention the not-so-little matter of excluding atheists such as myself.

I would say that the sad thing is not that there is so much divergence about God, but rather that there is so little effort to truly accept and understand those differences.

Some sort of unification may or may not follow eventually, but actual understanding is in fact much more worthwhile a goal.

 

[logician]

Very few people really can come up with a good definition of who or what their god is.

 

[elfy2go]

It is very unclear what is meant by God...many people have offered many different definitions...

one example of a definition that has been posed is : a being a greater than which cannot be conceived. This usually goes along with an argument for God's existence based on existence being a perfection...But, as our good friend Immanuel Kant points out, existence is not the proper predicate of a subject.

Anyhow, what seems clear to me is that when we try to attribute things such as omnipotence, omniscience, and omni benevolence to God we start running into problems...

Others conceive of God as almost synonymous with nature or the natural order (this might come up particularly with Spinoza and others with Pantheistic tendencies). It seemed clear to me that when reading Spinoza we were not to attribute anything such as thought or a will or an action to God...

 

[Kilgore Trout]

All I gotta say is that Zeus could kick Thor's butt. Lightning > Hammer. Discuss.

 

[logician]

It seems that at the core Christianity, Judiasm, Zoroasterianism, Muslim faith, Mormonism, and the like really are after the same thing: to lead a good life and to follow in the light of 'God', no matter what name they choose to call him.

.

I would question the statement that the purpose of religion is to lead a good life.

 

[elfy2go]

Mr. Logician,
Pragmatically I think that is one of the main things religion (especially organized) attempts to do. Certainly religion is multi-faceted and it depends greatly upon the church you attend; there are many "purposes"...however, simply looking at the Bible and other religious text one must admit that it offers a great deal of instruction on how one should lead their life...

 

[logician]

The main purpose of religion always has been to gain believers, in an attempt gain power and exert social control. Looking at the Japanese in WW2, one realizes that "living the good life" was not what their religion was about at all, instead, world domination was the main theme. That has been true for many religions throughout history.

 

[elfy2go]

Well...that's one perspective...a perspective that may be focused on by a social conflict theorist...

A functionalist would probably disagree with you and most religious people would disagree...By gaining believers there is a creation of unity and a common conception of what is good.

I know a lot has gone on under the name of religion, but the core beliefs that religion promote seem greatly to be about how one should live.

 

[Charity]

I think many different people have their concept of what they believe whether it be the Christian God or another god.
Whether it is the same God remains to be seen.
If there is one God or many I don't believe that much can be gained by fighting with each other.

 

[LuisDantas]

The main purpose of religion always has been to gain believers, in an attempt gain power and exert social control.

That may not be far from the truth in a very general sense... but it is still very much a strawman.

Looking at the Japanese in WW2, one realizes that "living the good life" was not what their religion was about at all, instead, world domination was the main theme. That has been true for many religions throughout history.

Misguided was those movements were, they still attempted to seek a good life in their own twisted, ignorant ways.

 

[Azakel]

The main purpose of religion always has been to gain believers, in an attempt gain power and exert social control. Looking at the Japanese in WW2, one realizes that "living the good life" was not what their religion was about at all, instead, world domination was the main theme. That has been true for many religions throughout history.

Which show that you really know nothing about Shinto at all. Why not learn about a religion before you say **** about it.

 

[elfy2go]

erm...why don't we not trash talk...

Look, in a certain sense Logician is right and in a certain sense he is wrong. It seems to me that there is an upper echelon of the Church that may be trying to manipulate people and gain a certain sense of power (It has probably lessened to some degree now than in the past [ie. there are other forces that have far toppled the church]). However, there also seems to be a large mass of believers who are not out to coerce people. These people follow religion in a non-manipulative way; rather, they follow it in a pragmatic sense (and much of this comes down to how one should live).

 

[logician]

Which show that you really know nothing about Shinto at all. Why not learn about a religion before you say **** about it.

My remarks were about Shintoism and WW2, you obviously did not read my post.

And somebody please define "the good life".

 

[Storm]

Bottom line I'm curious how people feel about this division, if they feel its neccessary?

I think it's inevitable. I also have faith that we're outgrowing it.

If they believe in a deeper interconnect of various religions or not?

Most of them, yeah.

 

[challupa]

I think it's inevitable. I also have faith that we're outgrowing it.


Most of them, yeah.

I would have to agree with you Storm. I too believe we as humanity are becoming more aware. Forums like this help that to happen. Once we are exposed to views that differ from our own, we cannot close that door. We will possibly still disagree, but the thought is there and it will cause some thought. There is no way it will not. That is good because I believe that is the only way humanity will survive the lack of maturity it currently has and their explosion into technology that has the power to destroy everything.

At some point we need to realize it's not about religion, it is about beliefs and how they make us behave. It is about how we walk through this world. It is about learning how to disagree without fighting to be right. It is about compassion and yet it is about zero tolerance for violations of human rights. It is a fine balance to maintain but it is a balance we absolutely need to find if we are going to survive.

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

I've never really been into organized religion, instead sticking to being a follower of God himself. It seems that all the great prophets of this world tried not to label what they were doing they just did what divinity sought them to do.

It seems that at the core Christianity, Judiasm, Zoroasterianism, Muslim faith, Mormonism, and the like really are after the same thing: to lead a good life and to follow in the light of 'God', no matter what name they choose to call him.

It seems to me somewhat sad that all of the greater spirit's followers need to be so divided. Why the need for the dozen names, Ahura Mazda, Allah, Jehova, etc etc.. What makes sense to me is the primary reasons for this division is cultural only. The greater spirit realized that we had divided ourselves by cultural differences and understood that every person would react to it's divine message differently. For instance, maybe someone raised under the cultural influence of Europe might look at things different from someone raised in Persia.

Bottom line I'm curious how people feel about this division, if they feel its neccessary? If they believe in a deeper interconnect of various religions or not? And any other thoughts that can be added to this topic... naturally people who are religious in one form or another might have something more to say on this topic than someone who doesn't believe in any form of God (etc), but I would love to hear from anyone's point of view. Thanks.

Absolutely the way I feel! There is only one God, and we all seek after him. Whether we call him God, Allah, Jehovah or whatever. We should stop fighting over our very few differences and start living what we believe. It bugs me when someone asks me a question like "What if you're wrong? What if Allah is the real God?" Well he is. "What if Jehovah is the true God?" Well, he is. We worship the same being. Let us do as he asks and love one another.

 

[Father Heathen]

All I gotta say is that Zeus could kick Thor's butt. Lightning > Hammer. Discuss.

But Thor can control thunder and lightening as well, plus his hammer can level mountains and he has a chariot that flies through the sky, and is just generally more ****** than Zeus.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

But Thor can control thunder and lightening as well, plus his hammer can level mountains and he has a chariot that flies through the sky, and is just generally more ****** than Zeus.

I'm convinced.

All Hail Thor! Down with Zeus worshippers!