Are Religions and Gods manmade?

[PAUL MARKHAM]

The New Race of Men will think for themselves but they will follow the teachings and laws of the Messenger of God.

Yes, think for themselves and all come to the same conclusion which Baha'is will tell them to come to.

 

[Trailblazer]

You make great claims without any evidence to back them up.

I have all the evidence I need.

There certainly can be good evidence and bad evidence. In the case of religion, most of it is bad.

Some is bad and some is good, it depends upon the religion..

You believe stories because Bahaullah wrote them down.

You're telling us again what your god can and can't do. How do you know?

Baha'u'llah did not write stories, He revealed information..

I know whatever Baha'u'llah revealed about God, what God does and does not do.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

You cannot prove that unless you can prove that is where He got what he wrote.
What Baha'u'llah git He got from God and what He knew of Jesus was first hand because He was the same spirit of Jesus.
I cannot prove that but that is what I believe.

I thought we already covered this. I do not expect anyone to believe what I believe and nobody should ever believe anything without question. Baha'u'llah said that

Can you prove he got his information from anywhere other than his imagination? No, as you've said.

I can prove a lot of what Bahaullah wrote was wishful thinking. There will never be a race of men who all think what they are told to think.

 

[Trailblazer]

So who was this Moses, what did he do to get any fame and where did you find that out?

I found out about Moses from the Writings of Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha. If you do a search on Moses in the Baha’i Reference Library you can find it too.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

I have all the evidence I need.

Others have all the evidence they need.

Baha'u'llah did not write stories, He revealed information..

What iformation?

I know whatever Baha'u'llah revealed about God, what God does and does not do.

So Bahallah got a lot from 1 visit!!!!

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

I found out about Moses from the Writings of Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha. If you do a search on Moses in the Baha’i Reference Library you can find it too.

So where did they get it from other than the Torah or the bible?

 

[Trailblazer]

So others posting what they believe is sometimes done from ignorance and when you post that definition you are pointing it out to them.

But you posting what you believe isn't ever from ignorance, even when you have no logical evidence.

No, argument from ignorance is not about someone being ignorant.

An argument from ignorance is a logical fallacy. It does not apply to beliefs because beliefs can never be proven true or false. It applies to assertions atheists make about things they cannot prove. Read the definition again:

Argument from ignorance asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false or proposition is false because it has not yet been proven true. This represents a type of false dichotomy in that it excludes a third option, which is that there may have been an insufficient investigation, and therefore there is insufficient information to prove the proposition be either true or false. Nor does it allow the admission that the choices may in fact not be two (true or false), but may be as many as four,

1. true
2. false
3. unknown between true or false
4. being unknowable (among the first three).[1]

Argument from ignorance - Wikipedia

 

[Trailblazer]

You're claiming people post to you even when you haven't posted?

I am not claiming I never post to people who did not post to me first, but I would estimate that 90% of the posts I post are responses to someone who posted to me first.

Or are you just annoyed others don't accept what you say?

I could not care less if people accept what I say.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes, think for themselves and all come to the same conclusion which Baha'is will tell them to come to.

No, I never said that. Baha'is do not TELL anyone to believe anything.

 

[Trailblazer]

Can you prove he got his information from anywhere other than his imagination? No, as you've said.

No, I cannot prove that.

I can prove a lot of what Bahaullah wrote was wishful thinking. There will never be a race of men who all think what they are told to think.

No, you cannot prove any of that. That is what an argument from ignorance is, when you assert things you cannot prove are true.

The New Race of Men will not think what they are told to think, they will think for themselves. Only God knows what the future holds. That is what I believe, I am not asserting it because I cannot prove it...

Are we square now?

 

[Trailblazer]

Others have all the evidence they need.

Fine then, they should believe what they believe based upon their evidence.

What information?

What was revealed in the 15,000 tablets.

So Bahallah got a lot from 1 visit!!!!

No, it was revealed to Him over a period of 40 years.

 

[Trailblazer]

So where did they get it from other than the Torah or the bible?

Baha'u'llah got it from God and Abdu'l-Baha got it from Baha'u'llah.

 

[CG Didymus]

I do not care about scholarly consensus, as I do not consider that evidence that Moses did not exist.

This is your response to joelr's post below? Yet you know some things said about Moses are myths? And is the source of the myths God or man?

You will never convince me that religions are myth... That there are myths in religious scriptures does not mean that religion is a myth.

Are the stories about God in the Bible myths? Yes. Are there religions based on the myths of the Bible? Yes.

You have stories of God showing up, but those are just stories. Do you believe these stories just because they are in the Bible?

And you agree. The stories of God in the Bible are myths.

That is WRONG. ALL OF THE EVIDENCE in scholarship shows these are myths, not messages from God.

So she believes the stories about Moses and God in the Bible are myths but that both God and Moses are not myths? The proof? Or evidence? Because Baha'u'llah said so? No wait. There is other evidence...

The origin of God is not the Bible so the Bible does not prove that God is a myth. Just because there are myths in the Bible, that does not mean there is no God. I consider that illogical, because other religions not based upon the Bible also reveal a God, Hinduism for example.

Just because the Bible stories about God are mythical, we can look to other religions? Like all the monotheistic religions that came before Judaism.... like Hinduism? Hmmm? And their stories aren't mythical? But wait, what about Jesus?

I believe what I do about Jesus because of what Baha’u’llah wrote, which I consider scripture, so I do not need the Bible to know who Jesus was.

Yes, the Jesus and the Bible? Can't trust those stories. They were written by men. Who knows what they added or left out. Who knows what they embellished to make the story sound more powerful... like Jesus walking on water and healing people and bringing them back to life. Can't trust that stuff. So dump it into the myth bin? The story says he was crucified? That's true? Then what does the story say? That he came back to life and ascended? Yeah right. We don't buy that. Gotta be pure myth. Just look at what liberal Christian scholars say? Oh, I forgot. We don't care what scholars say.

All we care about is what Baha'u'llah says. Adam was real, but the story about him is myth. Noah was real, but him too, the story about him was myth. Abraham? The story not only mythical but wrong. He didn't take Isaac to be sacrificed... Baha'u'llah says that he took Ishmael. So the Bible has something false that man has added into it. Moses? Of course real, but the stories? Myth. Jesus? Same thing real, but the stories mythical. But one thing we know for sure they were all "manifestations" of God and brought a true, "revealed" religion and Scriptures from God to prove it.

So where does Bahaullah get his information from to say Jesus was a messenger.

Like we all know... direct from God but also from the Bible and Quran. What ever Baha'u'llah says is true about the Bible is true. It's the rest that's myth and manmade.

There certainly can be good evidence and bad evidence. In the case of religion, most of it is bad.

Bad evidence? All the unprovable stuff we've got about religion. Good evidence? God proving himself to be real without sending some middleman that only some people end up believing in.

But, I've got to be fair to God... He is proving himself real. He said he was going to put the people of the Earth through hell for not believing in him and he is. Praise God! Come on... everyone get on your knees and worship him before he tortures and kills us all. But no pressure. No coercion. Come on, It worked for the Polynesians. Every time they threw a virgin into a volcano God gave them good crops. Who can deny that?

 

[Trailblazer]

So she believes the stories about Moses and God in the Bible are myths but that both God and Moses are not myths? The proof? Or evidence? Because Baha'u'llah said so? No wait. There is other evidence...

Just because the Bible stories about God are mythical, we can look to other religions? Like all the monotheistic religions that came before Judaism.... like Hinduism? Hmmm? And their stories aren't mythical? But wait, what about Jesus?

Yes, the Jesus and the Bible? Can't trust those stories. They were written by men. Who knows what they added or left out. Who knows what they embellished to make the story sound more powerful... like Jesus walking on water and healing people and bringing them back to life. Can't trust that stuff. So dump it into the myth bin? The story says he was crucified? That's true? Then what does the story say? That he came back to life and ascended? Yeah right. We don't buy that. Gotta be pure myth. Just look at what liberal Christian scholars say? Oh, I forgot. We don't care what scholars say.

All we care about is what Baha'u'llah says. Adam was real, but the story about him is myth. Noah was real, but him too, the story about him was myth. Abraham? The story not only mythical but wrong. He didn't take Isaac to be sacrificed... Baha'u'llah says that he took Ishmael. So the Bible has something false that man has added into it. Moses? Of course real, but the stories? Myth. Jesus? Same thing real, but the stories mythical. But one thing we know for sure they were all "manifestations" of God and brought a true, "revealed" religion and Scriptures from God to prove it.

PAUL MARKHAM said: So where does Bahaullah get his information from to say Jesus was a messenger.

Like we all know... direct from God but also from the Bible and Quran. What ever Baha'u'llah says is true about the Bible is true. It's the rest that's myth and manmade.

I see you found another new pen pal. Thanks for filling Him in on what I believe regarding the Bible and Baha’u’llah, it saved me from a lot of typing and haranguing back and forth with this poster.

I can always count on you CG to do my work for me. I could not have done a better job of summarizing my beliefs if I tried.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

First of all, “Hell” in the Bible (Hebrew, “Shéol”; Greek, “Hades”), is only the Grave. This can easily be seen in the account of Jacob mourning for Joseph, at Genesis 37:35, Douay-Rheims Bible....”And all his children being gathered together to comfort their father in his sorrow, he would not receive comfort, but said: I will go down to my son into hell, mourning. ...”

And Psalms 16:10 reveals that, when Jesus died, even he too was “in hell.” DRB 10Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; nor wilt then give thy holy one to see corruption.
Applied to Jesus at Acts 2:25-27...
Acts 2 DRB

And that's an apologetics site. I have a feeling an actual ship building site would not agree.

Fine with me. Rarely do I go to AiG...
Here you are...
University of Leicester physics students says Noah’s Ark would have floated with two each of 35,000 species of animal

 

[Mock Turtle]

What?

What, what?

Are you STILL thinking that everyone's life histories have to change because in your opinion you feel it should?

Nope. Just suggesting that one might be basing such on a delusion, especially when you appear to discount all other possibilities. And where you apparently know all there is to know about childhood, anything that might determine how children react to what happens in their minds, and as to what might have caused such.

Yea, it takes some ego to think that's how it works.

No more than it does to refuse to believe one might be mistaken - but then it does take a bit of effort. Beyond you perhaps?

Spoiler alert, it doesn't work that way.

Spoiler is - get real. People are often mistaken as to how they interpret experiences.

Since you have nothing but the same old opinion to offer, we're done.

Great. You are becoming especially tiresome.

PS. Nibble at this (as being relevant):

Childhood hallucinations are surprisingly common – but why?

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

No, I cannot prove that.

No, you cannot prove any of that. That is what an argument from ignorance is, when you assert things you cannot prove are true.

The New Race of Men will not think what they are told to think, they will think for themselves. Only God knows what the future holds. That is what I believe, I am not asserting it because I cannot prove it...

Are we square now?

You can't prove it, therefore an

Argument from ignorance asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false or proposition is false because it has not yet been proven true. This represents a type of false dichotomy in that it excludes a third option, which is that there may have been an insufficient investigation, and therefore there is insufficient information to prove the proposition be either true or false. Nor does it allow the admission that the choices may in fact not be two (true or false), but may be as many as four,

1. true
2. false
3. unknown between true or false
4. being unknowable (among the first three).[1]

Argument from ignorance - Wikipedia

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

Baha'u'llah got it from God and Abdu'l-Baha got it from Baha'u'llah.

Argument from ignorance asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false or proposition is false because it has not yet been proven true. This represents a type of false dichotomy in that it excludes a third option, which is that there may have been an insufficient investigation, and therefore there is insufficient information to prove the proposition be either true or false. Nor does it allow the admission that the choices may in fact not be two (true or false), but may be as many as four,

1. true
2. false
3. unknown between true or false
4. being unknowable (among the first three).[1]

Argument from ignorance - Wikipedia

Whereas I can say he got it all from the bible including Adam, Abraham, Noah, Jesus and a lot of other things. Then people can judge the better story.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

No, argument from ignorance is not about someone being ignorant.

An argument from ignorance is a logical fallacy. It does not apply to beliefs because beliefs can never be proven true or false. It applies to assertions atheists make about things they cannot prove. Read the definition again:

Argument from ignorance asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false or proposition is false because it has not yet been proven true. This represents a type of false dichotomy in that it excludes a third option, which is that there may have been an insufficient investigation, and therefore there is insufficient information to prove the proposition be either true or false. Nor does it allow the admission that the choices may in fact not be two (true or false), but may be as many as four,

1. true
2. false
3. unknown between true or false
4. being unknowable (among the first three).[1]

Argument from ignorance - Wikipedia

Which is something you do repeatedly. In fact your evidence is wafer-thin, mine is stronger based only on the fact that there are many charlatans in religion.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

So what does Bahaullah say about these messengers Adam, Abraham, Noah, Moses and Jesus?

If he doesn't believe in the bible and got the message from god what made them stand out? They had to do something and god must have told him.