Are Scientists Lying about Evolution?

[Sunstone]

What, do you suppose, is the likelihood that hundreds of thousands of evolutionary scientists are engaged in a conspiracy to lie about evolution without, however, even one of them ever breaking ranks to expose the conspiracy?

Just askin' 'cause someone told me the other day that scientists were lying about evolution, and I want to see if anyone else believes that.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

In the book of Job, God mocks Job's understanding of Creation. One would assume Job would know something akin to the Creation account in Genesis. When even GOD mocks you for believing that story, that's just sad

 

[Valjean]

I suspect that many see science, and the ToE in particular, as a variant of religion; as a sort of a priori, faith-based doctrine.Some seem to regard scientists as anti-religious propagandists.
Reflects poorly on the state of the US educational system.

 

[BSM1]

What, do you suppose, is the likelihood that hundreds of thousands of evolutionary scientists are engaged in a conspiracy to lie about evolution without, however, even one of them ever breaking ranks to expose the conspiracy?

Just askin' 'cause someone told me the other day that scientists were lying about evolution, and I want to see if anyone else believes that.

Well, they lie about everything else. Right...right?

 

[LuisDantas]

I suspect that many see science, and the ToE in particular, as a variant of religion; as a sort of a priori, faith-based doctrine.Some seem to regard scientists as anti-religious propagandists.
Reflects poorly on the state of the US educational system.

I share this impression. Except that unfortunately it is not the US alone that is sorely lacking in education.

 

[McBell]

What, do you suppose, is the likelihood that hundreds of thousands of evolutionary scientists are engaged in a conspiracy to lie about evolution without, however, even one of them ever breaking ranks to expose the conspiracy?

Just askin' 'cause someone told me the other day that scientists were lying about evolution, and I want to see if anyone else believes that.

Zero to none.
the scientific community is far to competitive for something as massive as Evolution to be a huge conspiracy.

 

[Buttercup]

I suspect that many see science, and the ToE in particular, as a variant of religion; as a sort of a priori, faith-based doctrine.Some seem to regard scientists as anti-religious propagandists.
Reflects poorly on the state of the US educational system.

I'm not entirely sure this warped view has much, if anything, to do with education. Nearly my entire extended family are devout Christians and several of them are highly educated with formidable academic degrees. Last summer on a car trip to Seattle, I was in a deep conversation with one of these ladies about the subject of evolution. She is of the firm opinion that the earth is approximately 8 thousand years old. When I started to discuss carbon dating, she said "Oh, that's been proven to be unreliable ". I gave rebuttals to the contrary and she pushed all my arguments aside because my points didn't coincide with what the bible teaches. After about 10 minutes of this discussion, I chose to change the subject so we could continue having a good time.

Needless to say, to many people, the bible is the infallible source for their education about the sciences.

 

[Mindmaster]

What, do you suppose, is the likelihood that hundreds of thousands of evolutionary scientists are engaged in a conspiracy to lie about evolution without, however, even one of them ever breaking ranks to expose the conspiracy?

Just askin' 'cause someone told me the other day that scientists were lying about evolution, and I want to see if anyone else believes that.

I generally have a problem with best-fit theories being accepted on the level of something like the theory of relativity. (which has been proven out with data) Here are legit complaints:

1) DNA, genes, and other markers such as this degrade too quickly in most cases and we are unable to actually confirm anything past say 30k years. So we know our own family tree up to that point, and know exactly who is related through that material to that point. Past that point...

2) Everything past the 30k mark is speculative. Things look like this or that so they are classified together, etc. It's barely science and mostly educated guessing. That includes taxonomic guessing as well. That means we can say chimps are 98% like us because of modern DNA, but have no idea in an actual sense if we were once directly related or that isn't just some freak coincidence. We share similar DNA with a lot of creatures such as various plants, cats, dogs, etc. We are literally biologically similar to everything else on the planet in some way, but whether there is a lineage or not is questionable because it is possible that similar "evolution" occurred in two places at once. If it did, then we don't know it and lack the ability to say. If it does occur like this, then our taxonomic understanding would be inaccurate.

I'm mostly middle-of-the-road with the concept, and I accept what we can prove through DNA and reject the best-fit information -- at least until we can prove it.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I generally have a problem with best-fit theories being accepted on the level of something like the theory of relativity. (which has been proven out with data) Here are legit complaints:

1) DNA, genes, and other markers such as this degrade too quickly in most cases and we are unable to actually confirm anything past say 30k years. So we know our own family tree up to that point, and know exactly who is related through that material to that point. Past that point...

2) Everything past the 30k mark is speculative. Things look like this or that so they are classified together, etc. It's barely science and mostly educated guessing. That includes taxonomic guessing as well. That means we can say chimps are 98% like us because of modern DNA, but have no idea in an actual sense if we were once directly related or that isn't just some freak coincidence. We share similar DNA with a lot of creatures such as various plants, cats, dogs, etc. We are literally biologically similar to everything else on the planet in some way, but whether there is a lineage or not is questionable because it is possible that similar "evolution" occurred in two places at once. If it did, then we don't know it and lack the ability to say. If it does occur like this, then our taxonomic understanding would be inaccurate.

I'm mostly middle-of-the-road with the concept, and I accept what we can prove through DNA and reject the best-fit information -- at least until we can prove it.

There is no 'proving' it in science. Proof is for math and liquor. All science does is compile evidences and organize them by dynamic tenants which link concepts. ToE:CD is one of the best evidenced and best understood theories especially in the biological field. And to say that it's 'mostly guesswork' is more often then not a woeful lack of biological background. We can in fact use a broad range of genetic and microbiological testing to determine relationships. And these tests continue to maintain the phylogenic tree of life with very few errors. Here is a video describing a very simplified version of but one of our methods of establishing lineage: http://www.cassiopeiaproject.com/ViewClip2.php?type=mp4&track_number=6&Tape_Name=Evolution

 

[YmirGF]

What, do you suppose, is the likelihood that hundreds of thousands of evolutionary scientists are engaged in a conspiracy to lie about evolution without, however, even one of them ever breaking ranks to expose the conspiracy?

Just askin' 'cause someone told me the other day that scientists were lying about evolution, and I want to see if anyone else believes that.

<sarcasm> Pfffft. Obviously they are lying their asses off, Phil. Like, why else would they spend their lives in relative obscurity, digging though endless piles of dirt looking for clues? They are so desperate that they literally have to take mountains and hills apart to support their flimsy thinking. You know as well as I do that if they only believed their lot would be improved but because they are rebellious and reject the word of God, then dig, they must.... </sarcasm> It's tragic, really.

 

[rusra02]

What, do you suppose, is the likelihood that hundreds of thousands of evolutionary scientists are engaged in a conspiracy to lie about evolution without, however, even one of them ever breaking ranks to expose the conspiracy?

Just askin' 'cause someone told me the other day that scientists were lying about evolution, and I want to see if anyone else believes that.

I think the majority of scientist have not considered the evidence critically, but have been conditioned by years of indoctrination to accept macro-evolution without question. Any scientists or educators who dare question the theory, (and an increasing number are doing so) are met with antagonism, ridicule, and damage to their careers and livelihood.

 

[McBell]

I think the majority of scientist have not considered the evidence critically, but have been conditioned by years of indoctrination to accept macro-evolution without question. Any scientists or educators who dare question the theory, (and an increasing number are doing so) are met with antagonism, ridicule, and damage to their careers and livelihood.

you do know that Expelled has been thoroughly debunked and shown to be nothing more than fanciful fiction, right?

 

[Revoltingest]

<sarcasm> Pfffft. Obviously they are lying their asses off, Phil. Like, why else would they spend their lives in relative obscurity, digging though endless piles of dirt looking for clues? They are so desperate that they literally have to take mountains and hills apart to support their flimsy thinking. You know as well as I do that if they only believed their lot would be improved but because they are rebellious and reject the word of God, then dig, they must.... </sarcasm> It's tragic, really.

I'll add that scientists I know are all inveterate liars.
- That dress really did make his wife's butt look big!
- Following her directions, it really is possible to miss it!

 

[Spideymon77]

Just askin' 'cause someone told me the other day that scientists were lying about evolution, and I want to see if anyone else believes that.

Well, I personally don't believe that because... What do they accomplish? End of religion? Religion is still going to exist so... Yeah, I don't see any reasons as to why they would be lying. Also XD man, conspiracy theorists think of some crazy stuff.

 

[metis]

I think the majority of scientist have not considered the evidence critically, but have been conditioned by years of indoctrination to accept macro-evolution without question. Any scientists or educators who dare question the theory, (and an increasing number are doing so) are met with antagonism, ridicule, and damage to their careers and livelihood.

Most scientists are brought up in theistic families, so the above simply doesn't even get close to explaining why we tend not to support theistic causation from a scientific perspective. Like it or not, there simply is not one shred of evidence that a God or Gods "created" all, but that doesn't mean that it is impossible. Nor is there "antagonism, ridicule, and damage to their careers and livelihood" as there are many scientists who are at least somewhat theistically inclined. Without the evidence one way or the other, most of us simply do not take a position one way or the other.

 

[Valjean]

I'm not entirely sure this warped view has much, if anything, to do with education. Nearly my entire extended family are devout Christians and several of them are highly educated with formidable academic degrees. Last summer on a car trip to Seattle, I was in a deep conversation with one of these ladies about the subject of evolution. She is of the firm opinion that the earth is approximately 8 thousand years old. When I started to discuss carbon dating, she said "Oh, that's been proven to be unreliable ". I gave rebuttals to the contrary and she pushed all my arguments aside because my points didn't coincide with what the bible teaches. After about 10 minutes of this discussion, I chose to change the subject so we could continue having a good time.

Needless to say, to many people, the bible is the infallible source for their education about the sciences.

Apparently they're "highly educated" in Christian mythology and not in the basics of physics, chemistry, geology, mathematics, logic and biology upon which our modern world view rests and which form the foundation of all our current technology. Advanced degrees notwithstanding, if one doesn't learn the basics of how the world works and the tools of critical analysis in high school, the complexity and interconnectedness of the sciences can seem baffling and overwhelming. Magical thinking and folklore can seem much more intuitive and comforting.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Dunning-Kruger

 

[Skwim]

I think the majority of scientist have not considered the evidence critically, but have been conditioned by years of indoctrination to accept macro-evolution without question. Any scientists or educators who dare question the theory, (and an increasing number are doing so) are met with antagonism, ridicule, and damage to their careers and livelihood.

Any evidence for these conclusions? Or are they simply items of wishful thinking?

Direct answers are most appreciated.

Thank you.


.

 

[Buttercup]

Apparently they're "highly educated" in Christian mythology and not in the basics of physics, chemistry, geology, mathematics, logic and biology upon which our modern world view rests and which form the foundation of all our current technology. Advanced degrees notwithstanding, if one doesn't learn the basics of how the world works and the tools of critical analysis in high school, the complexity and interconnectedness of the sciences can seem baffling and overwhelming. Magical thinking and folklore can seem much more intuitive and comforting.

I agree, of course. My point is that a person CAN be educated in the areas you present and STILL believe the earth is 8 thousand years old. How that's reconciled in their mind is beyond me.

 

[fantome profane]

Any evidence for these conclusions? Or are they simply items of wishful thinking?

Direct answers are most appreciated.

Thank you.


.

[poe]
The evidence is that evolution is a lie and creationism is true. Therefore any scientists who disagrees is either lying of just not doing their job.[/poe]