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Are the French anti-Semitic ?

dantech

Well-Known Member
I've lived in France, and I have two aunts who live there who I try to visit at least once a year.
They live in a majorly Jewish neighborhood so it's not very noticeable, but when we do go out into larger cities, you are definitely afraid for your life when wearing a kippah, so you just don't.

The Arabs have invaded France. I read a study a while back that showed that Arabic was growing as a spoken language in France to the point that it wasn't far from being the most spoken language. It's no secret that the majority of Arabs are racist towards Jews(the opposite is true as well), so they have been spreading the hate for dozens of years.

Then comes this "comédien" and makes it alright for all of those that have been hating in the dark to show up and hate us publicly.

I hope people recognize the similarities between this event, and the passed, and get the hell out of there!
 

Flankerl

Well-Known Member
You may be interested in this...

Alan Dershowitz: Norway to Jews

I knew this was coming the second i saw this thread.

Some people have their holy articles.


Excellent article. Scary.

Europe seems pretty bad.

Yeah it is. Please stay away and safe.



b.t.w. India is a safehaven and has a nice Jewish population though tiny.

Would rather shoot myself.

No offense intended.



My wife and I have been following this, and although my first instinct is to assume that his crowd is very specific, my wife says that French from all backgrounds go to his shows.
Right now France is the source of most Jewish immigration to Israel, and there is no point beating around the bush and being politically correct about it, it's because Muslim populations harass and attack them, this is what they tell us, this is what we experience when visiting French urban centers, and this is what those of us who have family in France learn from them.

/thread
Its the same in Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium, Sweden...
 

Flankerl

Well-Known Member
I find it rather weird to call an entire country antisemitic based on the word of one single person that was refused to hold a lecture there.


But hey its the foxnews generation.
 

Levite

Higher and Higher
I find it rather weird to call an entire country antisemitic based on the word of one single person that was refused to hold a lecture there.

Far be it from me to make a habit of agreeing with Mike, but....

Norway's Problem With Anti-Semitism

Norway: Anti-Israelism and Anti-Semitism Will Continue After Election

Norway Paper's Cartoon So Anti-Semitic....

Norway's Annual Israel Hate Day

Norway's New Generation Quislings

Anti-Semitism On Rise In Europe According To ADL

Wiesenthal Center Launches Norway Watch


I'm sure there are non-Jewish Norwegians who are not anti-Semites, but very much the opposite. But that does not mean that there is not apparently a significant problem in Norway.

Without wishing to seem like I am making an attack, may I sincerely inquire why it seems like you are invested in downplaying anti-Semitism in Europe? Is it because you live there, and having it on the rise there makes you uncomfortable? I ask sympathetically: I know when I lived in Minnesota for a while, and there was a rash of anti-Semitic episodes there, it made me very uncomfortable to realize that there was more anti-Semitism around me than I had wanted to know about.

Or is it something else? Do you truly believe that anti-Semitism is not on the rise in Europe? In which case, how do you explain all of these different articles, the concern of various international anti-hate organizations, and so forth? Do you believe they are falsely connecting random incidents and blowing them out of proportion? And if so, why?
 

Avi1001

reform Jew humanist liberal feminist entrepreneur
Without wishing to seem like I am making an attack, may I sincerely inquire why it seems like you are invested in downplaying anti-Semitism in Europe? Is it because you live there, and having it on the rise there makes you uncomfortable? I ask sympathetically: I know when I lived in Minnesota for a while, and there was a rash of anti-Semitic episodes there, it made me very uncomfortable to realize that there was more anti-Semitism around me than I had wanted to know about.

Or is it something else? Do you truly believe that anti-Semitism is not on the rise in Europe? In which case, how do you explain all of these different articles, the concern of various international anti-hate organizations, and so forth? Do you believe they are falsely connecting random incidents and blowing them out of proportion? And if so, why?

Very interesting and well stated insights. When we bring forward these issues about anti-Semitism, it is with concern and compassion for Jews around the world who might potentially be victimized.

Here is an interesting brief article, published last week, by a Director at Wiesenthal, about the French situation, where he concludes that a prominent French journalist has decided to make Aliya :

Today a boil has burst in Paris: 'Jew, France is not yours!' | Shimon Samuels | Ops & Blogs | The Times of Israel
 

CMike

Well-Known Member
Far be it from me to make a habit of agreeing with Mike, but....

Norway's Problem With Anti-Semitism

Norway: Anti-Israelism and Anti-Semitism Will Continue After Election

Norway Paper's Cartoon So Anti-Semitic....

Norway's Annual Israel Hate Day

Norway's New Generation Quislings

Anti-Semitism On Rise In Europe According To ADL

Wiesenthal Center Launches Norway Watch


I'm sure there are non-Jewish Norwegians who are not anti-Semites, but very much the opposite. But that does not mean that there is not apparently a significant problem in Norway.

Without wishing to seem like I am making an attack, may I sincerely inquire why it seems like you are invested in downplaying anti-Semitism in Europe? Is it because you live there, and having it on the rise there makes you uncomfortable? I ask sympathetically: I know when I lived in Minnesota for a while, and there was a rash of anti-Semitic episodes there, it made me very uncomfortable to realize that there was more anti-Semitism around me than I had wanted to know about.

Or is it something else? Do you truly believe that anti-Semitism is not on the rise in Europe? In which case, how do you explain all of these different articles, the concern of various international anti-hate organizations, and so forth? Do you believe they are falsely connecting random incidents and blowing them out of proportion? And if so, why?
+10000

This is weird.
 

CMike

Well-Known Member
Very interesting and well stated insights. When we bring forward these issues about anti-Semitism, it is with concern and compassion for Jews around the world who might potentially be victimized.

Here is an interesting brief article, published last week, by a Director at Wiesenthal, about the French situation, where he concludes that a prominent French journalist has decided to make Aliya :

Today a boil has burst in Paris: 'Jew, France is not yours!' | Shimon Samuels | Ops & Blogs | The Times of Israel
I think we need to take this stuff very seriously.

I have been on a Leon Uris book kick lately.

Some of the books that I feel every jews should read are:

Mila 18-The Warsaw Ghetto Uprising
Exodus
Defiance (not by Uris by about jewish rebellion against nazis
Miltia Pass
Armageddon

All great books.

Before the holocaust there were many warning signs.

Jews would be fools to ignore blatant anti-semitism and not try to combat it.
 

Avi1001

reform Jew humanist liberal feminist entrepreneur
I just realized that France has by far the largest Jewish population in Europe. At nearly 500,000 they have more than Britain and Germany combined. See the table at the end of the wiki article:

History of the Jews in Europe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

One thing that amazes me, in a country with 500,000 Jews, there is not one in this forum on religion !

Here's an interesting idea. What if we email a few Rabbis in Britain, France and Germany and ask them to join this forum ? What do you think ?
 
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dantech

Well-Known Member
I find it rather weird to call an entire country antisemitic based on the word of one single person that was refused to hold a lecture there.


But hey its the foxnews generation.

I find it rather weird that you haven't learned your lesson with what happened less than a hundred years ago.
If all Jews back then had your mentality, and downplayed anti-Semitism like you do, then it's no wonder we lost six million brothers and sisters. It saddens me that you can ignore history as it is repeating itself so clearly.
Do yourself and all Jews a favor... read these articles with an open mind, side by side with some famous articles of the passed, and hopefully you will realize the gravity of the situation. Those that are facing the danger first hand are often those who don't even realize it, unfortunately until it might be to late.

Let's not allow history to repeat itself, please!
 

Avi1001

reform Jew humanist liberal feminist entrepreneur
I find it rather weird that you haven't learned your lesson with what happened less than a hundred years ago.
If all Jews back then had your mentality, and downplayed anti-Semitism like you do, then it's no wonder we lost six million brothers and sisters. It saddens me that you can ignore history as it is repeating itself so clearly.
Do yourself and all Jews a favor... read these articles with an open mind, side by side with some famous articles of the passed, and hopefully you will realize the gravity of the situation. Those that are facing the danger first hand are often those who don't even realize it, unfortunately until it might be to late.

Let's not allow history to repeat itself, please!

I think it might be difficult to understand the POV of a Jew living in Germany. Do you know the story of how frogs are cooked ? If you put a frog into boiling water, he jumps out. But if you put the frog in cold water and slowly heat it, you will cook the frog. Is this a good analogy to Jews in Europe ? (Utoh, and I'm not even using the term "frog" in its nationalistic sense :) ).
 
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metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Part of the problem is that with French culture, there's an attitude that there are "French" ways of doing things. It's sort of a cultural arrogance, and deviation from that "French" norm often doesn't often go over well. There's sort of the attitude that the French have the idea of sophisticated culture down pat.

BTW, to be clear, I'm 1/2 French.
 

Avi1001

reform Jew humanist liberal feminist entrepreneur
Part of the problem is that with French culture, there's an attitude that there are "French" ways of doing things. It's sort of a cultural arrogance, and deviation from that "French" norm often doesn't often go over well. There's sort of the attitude that the French have the idea of sophisticated culture down pat.

BTW, to be clear, I'm 1/2 French.

Metis, I don't doubt for a minute that you are right. But the historical way that Germans and French have behaved toward people of different nationalities and religions is not going to win them a Nobel Peace Prize !
 

Flankerl

Well-Known Member
I'm sure there are non-Jewish Norwegians who are not anti-Semites, but very much the opposite. But that does not mean that there is not apparently a significant problem in Norway.

There is racism everywhere. Such is life.

Also these sites and these articles, really? Various sites and foundations that combat one specific problem. Iam not really convinced.
Once in a while you need to publish an article to get the money flowing again.


Without wishing to seem like I am making an attack, may I sincerely inquire why it seems like you are invested in downplaying anti-Semitism in Europe? Is it because you live there, and having it on the rise there makes you uncomfortable? I ask sympathetically: I know when I lived in Minnesota for a while, and there was a rash of anti-Semitic episodes there, it made me very uncomfortable to realize that there was more anti-Semitism around me than I had wanted to know about.

Or is it something else? Do you truly believe that anti-Semitism is not on the rise in Europe? In which case, how do you explain all of these different articles, the concern of various international anti-hate organizations, and so forth? Do you believe they are falsely connecting random incidents and blowing them out of proportion? And if so, why?

First of all "in Europe" doesnt exist. Europe is not some single country.

You have rising antisemitism in Hungary among its native population but thats it.
Everywhere else its almost exclusively a problem among muslims. The topic no one likes to speak about since we are so pro multicultural until it bites us in the butt. :rolleyes:


But since you mentioned Germany lets have a look. The last time i was very uncomfortable was during the attack on Gaza some years back. The atmosphere was really grim but not because some Sieg Heiling germans were marching down the street. It was because muslims marched through the streets while chanting "Hamas" and all the fun stuff they like to scream.

Apart from that we had an incident in Berlin last year. A Rabbi and his daugther were attacked on the streets in the evening. Again not by germans but by arabs.


And thats it: People from the native society you tend to live in inside a european country usually dont give a **** about you being jewish. The problems usually arise when you meet muslims. Not all but far too many.

I live near Dortmund(pretty much the Neonazi capital of NRW) and i cant even remember when i last saw an obvious Neonazi. Now tell me when you saw your last "White Power" idiot?



One thing that amazes me, in a country with 500,000 Jews, there is not one in this forum on religion !

This is not a french speaking forum. French are like that.

There are french, german, spanish, portuguese, danish, swedish speaking forums on the internet. I kid you not.


Here's an interesting idea. What if we email a few Rabbis in Britain, France and Germany and ask them to join this forum ? What do you think ?

Oh my.


I think it might be difficult to understand the POV of a Jew living in Germany. Do you know the story of how frogs are cooked ? If you put a frog into boiling water, he jumps out. But if you put the frog in cold water and slowly heat it, you will cook the frog. Is this a good analogy to Jews in Europe ? (Utoh, and I'm not even using the term "frog" in its nationalistic sense :) ).

"Let me tell you about your continent/country/country you live in and which i only know of from books, movies and articles" :rolleyes:


Metis, I don't doubt for a minute that you are right. But the historical way that Germans and French have behaved toward people of different nationalities and religions is not going to win them a Nobel Peace Prize !

While of course the history of the USA is a shining beacon of humanity and civilisation.

Apart from all the countries it invaded.


You should leave the US, its not safe there. In WW2 they put american citizens of certain ethnicities into camps because they thought they would be a danger to society.

You could be next.

:sorry1:



I find it rather weird that you haven't learned your lesson with what happened less than a hundred years ago.
If all Jews back then had your mentality, and downplayed anti-Semitism like you do, then it's no wonder we lost six million brothers and sisters. It saddens me that you can ignore history as it is repeating itself so clearly.
Do yourself and all Jews a favor... read these articles with an open mind, side by side with some famous articles of the passed, and hopefully you will realize the gravity of the situation. Those that are facing the danger first hand are often those who don't even realize it, unfortunately until it might be to late.

Let's not allow history to repeat itself, please!

You have got to be kidding me.

I live here. You dont. Dont try to tell me what i see every single day with my own eyes. Thank you.



Part of the problem is that with French culture, there's an attitude that there are "French" ways of doing things. It's sort of a cultural arrogance, and deviation from that "French" norm often doesn't often go over well. There's sort of the attitude that the French have the idea of sophisticated culture down pat.

BTW, to be clear, I'm 1/2 French.

Like really half french as in your father or mother are french or american "french" in the sense that some distant long dead relative was once french apart from being cherokee?
 
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CMike

Well-Known Member
Since she is Europe maybe she feels like she needs to defend it?

However, once thing that jews should be in unison about is calling out anti-semitic behavior.

WWII didn't happen in a vaccum. It happened because of the anti-semitism throughout Europe, and disregarding the warning signs.
 

dantech

Well-Known Member
You have got to be kidding me.

I live here. You dont. Dont try to tell me what i see every single day with my own eyes. Thank you

Actually, I lived in France for years. Do you live in a cave? You clearly don't hear all the stories, because it's really mind boggling how you can just disregard the clear rise of anti-Semitism.

You blame it on mostly Muslims, and I agree with you. But have you seen the Muslim population in France? It grows by the second, and they are very successful at spreading the hate. Maybe it's not that way in Germany, I wouldn't know.

Any way you want to look at it, 17000 people marching and chanting against our right to live in a country is extremely anti-Semitic and should be seen as such. It's also safe to say that the numbers will only rise if people are doing it so publicly now.

But yeah, keep downplaying the situation, it's probably nothing to worry about.


Btw, I actually got confronted by a "white power" idiot on Sukkot, here in Montreal, Canada, in a 90% Jewish neighborhood. You're really saying that it's less likely to happen in Germany or elsewhere in Europe?
 

Levite

Higher and Higher
There is racism everywhere. Such is life.

Also these sites and these articles, really? Various sites and foundations that combat one specific problem. Iam not really convinced.
Once in a while you need to publish an article to get the money flowing again.

First of all "in Europe" doesnt exist. Europe is not some single country.

You have rising antisemitism in Hungary among its native population but thats it.
Everywhere else its almost exclusively a problem among muslims. The topic no one likes to speak about since we are so pro multicultural until it bites us in the butt.

But since you mentioned Germany lets have a look. The last time i was very uncomfortable was during the attack on Gaza some years back. The atmosphere was really grim but not because some Sieg Heiling germans were marching down the street. It was because muslims marched through the streets while chanting "Hamas" and all the fun stuff they like to scream.

Apart from that we had an incident in Berlin last year. A Rabbi and his daugther were attacked on the streets in the evening. Again not by germans but by arabs.

And thats it: People from the native society you tend to live in inside a european country usually dont give a **** about you being jewish. The problems usually arise when you meet muslims. Not all but far too many.

I live near Dortmund(pretty much the Neonazi capital of NRW) and i cant even remember when i last saw an obvious Neonazi. Now tell me when you saw your last "White Power" idiot?

But anti-Semitism is not being said to be on the rise in the US right now: it doesn't make a difference when I saw my last skinhead or klansman or whatnot, because that's not the issue here.

And forgive me, but what exactly is the point of noting that Europe isn't a country but made up of many countries (which, perhaps astoundingly, I actually knew)? Europe is a very small continent, wherein the majority of countries are apparently entered into some sort of union-- or so we hear, far off in this corner of the world. Does it really detract from the point that much that anti-Semitism is said to be on the rise in Norway, Sweden, France, Hungary, Italy, the Netherlands, Denmark, Ukraine, and Russia, but so far we haven't necessarily heard bad stuff about Luxembourg or Andorra? Or is it simply that to you, the important thing is what's going on in Germany, and not elsewhere?

For the life of me, I cannot understand why this is a point of contention for you. You're going to dismiss articles from anti-hate organizations because you think they need to create hate hysteria for fundraising purposes?? You really don't think that there's any significant chance that they might just be doing their jobs by reporting what they see going on? And that is to say nothing of those articles that were not from such organizations-- was the problem with those articles that they quoted such organizations at all?

What I find maybe most distressing is that you shrug off such anti-Semitism as does exist merely by blaming it all on Arabs. Now, I have no doubt there is much truth that the influx of Arab immigrants to Europe in the past 20-30 years has certainly been responsible for some anti-Semitism-- likely no small amount of it. But even if you were correct that the majority of the anti-Semitism throughout Europe (or such countries in Europe that have any significant anti-Semitism problem) is being actively perpetrated primarily by Arabs, you are ignoring the fact that everyone else is tolerating it. In examining the stories and reports around these things, in speaking to my family in France, my friends in Britain and Holland, and whatever other sources of news I can find, I hear very little in the way of popular outcry against anti-Semitism, or even of government action to curb it-- a few formulaic condemnations in the wake of tragic incidents, but nothing concrete or decisive. In fact, often much the reverse.

But passive tolerance of hatred is simply passive hatred at best, complicity in whatever arises from the hate at worst. As Edmund Burke said (paraphrasing John Stuart Mill), All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

Even if most of the voices raised in anti-Semitism in European countries are Arab voices-- a premise of which I am by no means convinced-- anti-Semitism is still on the rise in those European countries because there is no outcry of equal or greater volume by non-Arab Europeans countering the anti-Semitism.

And, lest you think I hold a double standard, I made the same argument when I helped organize events and rallies against anti-Semitism in Los Angeles, in the Bay Area (Northern California) in the 1990s, and why I would do so again if anti-Semitic incidents were (God forbid) to rise in the Chicago area where I currently reside. I expect a counter outcry to anti-Semitism in any community wherein it arises, and find fault whenever and wherever no such counter outcry emerges.
 
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Avi1001

reform Jew humanist liberal feminist entrepreneur
Lots of good points here, but I think I can see where Flankerl is coming from as well. Americans always seem to want think we can, and will, save everyone, all over the world. So I guess we don't come off as so humble.


But anti-Semitism is not being said to be on the rise in the US right now: it doesn't make a difference when I saw my last skinhead or klansman or whatnot, because that's not the issue here.

And forgive me, but what exactly is the point of noting that Europe isn't a country but made up of many countries (which, perhaps astoundingly, I actually knew)? Europe is a very small continent, wherein the majority of countries are apparently entered into some sort of union-- or so we hear, far off in this corner of the world. Does it really detract from the point that much that anti-Semitism is said to be on the rise in Norway, Sweden, France, Hungary, Italy, the Netherlands, Denmark, Ukraine, and Russia, but so far we haven't necessarily heard bad stuff about Luxembourg or Andorra? Or is it simply that to you, the important thing is what's going on in Germany, and not elsewhere?

For the life of me, I cannot understand why this is a point of contention for you. You're going to dismiss articles from anti-hate organizations because you think they need to create hate hysteria for fundraising purposes?? You really don't think that there's any significant chance that they might just be doing their jobs by reporting what they see going on? And that is to say nothing of those articles that were not from such organizations-- was the problem with those articles that they quoted such organizations at all?

What I find maybe most distressing is that you shrug off such anti-Semitism as does exist merely by blaming it all on Arabs. Now, I have no doubt there is much truth that the influx of Arab immigrants to Europe in the past 20-30 years has certainly been responsible for some anti-Semitism-- likely no small amount of it. But even if you were correct that the majority of the anti-Semitism throughout Europe (or such countries in Europe that have any significant anti-Semitism problem) is being actively perpetrated primarily by Arabs, you are ignoring the fact that everyone else is tolerating it. In examining the stories and reports around these things, in speaking to my family in France, my friends in Britain and Holland, and whatever other sources of news I can find, I hear very little in the way of popular outcry against anti-Semitism, or even of government action to curb it-- a few formulaic condemnations in the wake of tragic incidents, but nothing concrete or decisive. In fact, often much the reverse.

But passive tolerance of hatred is simply passive hatred at best, complicity in whatever arises from the hate at worst. As Edmund Burke said (paraphrasing John Stuart Mill), All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

Even if most of the voices raised in anti-Semitism in European countries are Arab voices-- a premise of which I am by no means convinced-- anti-Semitism is still on the rise in those European countries because there is no outcry of equal or greater volume by non-Arab Europeans countering the anti-Semitism.

And, lest you think I hold a double standard, I made the same argument when I helped organize events and rallies against anti-Semitism in Los Angeles, in the Bay Area (Northern California) in the 1990s, and why I would do so again if anti-Semitic incidents were (God forbid) to rise in the Chicago area where I currently reside. I expect a counter outcry to anti-Semitism in any community wherein it arises, and find fault whenever and wherever no such counter outcry emerges.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Like really half french as in your father or mother are french or american "french" in the sense that some distant long dead relative was once french apart from being cherokee?

Three of my four grandparents were Me'tis (French/Amerindian mix) out of Quebec. The source of my statement comes from my study of French culture, almost exclusively from books, plus some of the experiences of some of my relatives. I was only in France once for a very short period of time, which certainly wasn't enough to give me any real personal experience there.
 
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