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Are the French anti-Semitic ?

Avi1001

reform Jew humanist liberal feminist entrepreneur
Are the French Anti-Semitic? - Newsweek

Unfortunately, Central Europe's history of intolerance is too well documented, and appears to be rearing its ugly head, once again.

Comments ?

Are there any French folks here who wish to share their thoughts ?
 
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Flankerl

Well-Known Member
Rather funny how long it took to get a thread here.

Well i've seen pictures of the people doing the quenelle and i wasnt surprised which i saw.


Thats all iam going to say about it.
edit: Oh and the style of the article is horrible.
 

Avi1001

reform Jew humanist liberal feminist entrepreneur
Rather funny how long it took to get a thread here.

Well i've seen pictures of the people doing the quenelle and i wasnt surprised which i saw.

Thats all iam going to say about it.
edit: Oh and the style of the article is horrible.

I am sorry, I do not understand. When you say: "I wasn't surprised which I saw", what do you mean ? Do you mean they are people you believe are anti-Semitic ?
 
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Flankerl

Well-Known Member
I saw people being antisemitic who i knew were antisemitic.

You always have to translate certain code words in the media when its about some european country. "Youth", "French" or even "Romanians" usually mean a different group of people than one would think.
 

Avi1001

reform Jew humanist liberal feminist entrepreneur
I saw people being antisemitic who i knew were antisemitic.

You always have to translate certain code words in the media when its about some european country. "Youth", "French" or even "Romanians" usually mean a different group of people than one would think.

Flankerl, there is one other country in Central Europe that has as bad a record of anti-semitism as France, and I think you know who that is. Please let us know how things are going, and stay safe.
 

Flankerl

Well-Known Member
Okay lol i get it. I live in Germany. But guess what, nothing is going on. People wake up, go to work, come home and go to sleep only to do it again for another day.


France has a problem with hate against its jews from certain groups within french society. But its a homemade problem.
Happens when you ran a colonial empire and now have an steady increase of immigrants from certain countries. Obviously their ideologies travel with them.
And you cant do anything against these groups within the boundaries of law.

So yeah... such is life.
 

Levite

Higher and Higher
All this stuff about the quenelle is entirely unsurprising. I have cousins who live outside Paris, and they say they don't dare wear kippot in public, or carry their tallitot to shul in identifiable tallit bags, or wear magen david jewelry, because they get threatened and verbally abused, or even accosted. They know several people who've gotten beaten by anti-Semitic toughs, too.

That said, I wouldn't want to say "The French are anti-Semitic," but rather, "There is a lot of anti-Semitism in France." Because my cousins also say that they have many non-Jewish friends who staunchly support them, and are horrified by the anti-Semitism in their country.
 

CMike

Well-Known Member
Flankerl, there is one other country in Central Europe that has as bad a record of anti-semitism as France, and I think you know who that is. Please let us know how things are going, and stay safe.
Norway is even worse, believe it or not.
 

Nyingjé Tso

Dharma not drama
Well, I know it's not my DIR but I am french and live in france, so maybe I can explain a little what's going on... Please remove my post if it's not ok to you.

Dieudonné have made quite a fuss here. He present himself as a comic, but his shows are completely anti semitics, anti jew, and he attract always a big bunch of extreme racists antijew people.
Now the good new is, his shows have been killed, and he is some weird money stuff that is going to cost much to him, especially the place he own where he is making his shows.
Also, a big majority of the people here just completely hate this guy.

Also, what's going on ? The thing is, many sensitive laws like same sex marriage passed recently in France. And all of a sudden, everyone saw the usually silent homophobic, ultra religious rise and protesting in the streets. This going to that, months later, they became quite of a big movement because the racists and anti jews and anti whatever joined them. Those past weeks, they used misinformation to get "ordinary" (meaning, normal people.) to join them, spreading false rumors about masturbation and gender equality being taught at primary school. Following that, they got their ranks fattened up by ordinary parents worried for their childs.

And they are still quite active, making a big fuss in the streets because they want to governement to kill the same sex marriage law, because homosexual people should not have childrens, because they are rapists, because they will marry animals, because childrens will be unhappy, because this is not what God taught, because they don't like this, they don't approve that...

As you can see, stupid people, stupid reasons.

They do not constitute a majority or anything. I've actually seen jew people wearing kipa without having problem.

There is a lot of racism problems. French being racists with the jews. Arabs being racists with the French. This being racists with that. There is a real social and cultural problem in France. But that doesn't mean French are specifically racists or anti jew. Yes, many are. But they do not represent a majority of French people, Majority of French people don't even care about jews and try to survive struggling with the loss of their jobs and the cost of living.

There is one exception however: Paris. That's a whole world in itself. But hey, good news is, Paris is not all France ! :p People should come less to Paris, and more in nicer cities around like Toulouse ! Then you'll see France.

Anyway, I think for more info on the Dieudonné guy, you should probably read french news. 'cause there have been quite a lot happening. Thank God, now it seems settled and this guy is not opening his mouth anymore lastly :facepalm:

Sorry again for posting your DIR :sorry: I just wanted to clear some things up. Not that I like my country, I actually plan to LEAVE it. But it really sadden me, as a French, to be classified as racist or anti-jew because of a big mouthed minority and the sensationalism of many foreign news.
 

ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
Namaste

I hope the French are not anti-Semitic, but I am starting to have some sympathy with the French Right-Wing though I would never ever support anti-semites. Oddly, France is one place I have not yet been to, but will before I am dead. One reason was some stupid bias I had against the French when as a child because of some anti-French opinions my Father imbedded in me as a result of World War Two. He was in Germany (Europe) during the war, and he would tell us the French would "give dirty cloth napkins to foreigners on purpose" (in a restaurant), "insult non-French" and things like that.

But my daughter's love of France helped me over come my prejudice against French. As I grew, also I met many French Canadians, and French from France who came to America and I found them, well, so sweet you want to hug them and you also get very jealous of their beautiful language and art.

But my roots are not French, so I cannot say I know the facts, but no I do not believe the French are anti-Jewish. I am not a Jewish or Jew, so I have not been a victim of such, but I think if anti-semitism exists in France, just as it may be in America or India, it is such a small minority. I think sometimes those politicos who hate the right-wing or conservatives in France overplay this. But caution is always welcome, I am a little worried because of the history of Europe.

Om Namah Sivaya
 
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Avi1001

reform Jew humanist liberal feminist entrepreneur
All this stuff about the quenelle is entirely unsurprising. I have cousins who live outside Paris, and they say they don't dare wear kippot in public, or carry their tallitot to shul in identifiable tallit bags, or wear magen david jewelry, because they get threatened and verbally abused, or even accosted. They know several people who've gotten beaten by anti-Semitic toughs, too.

That said, I wouldn't want to say "The French are anti-Semitic," but rather, "There is a lot of anti-Semitism in France." Because my cousins also say that they have many non-Jewish friends who staunchly support them, and are horrified by the anti-Semitism in their country.

It sounds like a country where people are living under repression, but they are unwilling to leave. Like Germany in the '20's and early '30's.
 
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Avi1001

reform Jew humanist liberal feminist entrepreneur
Hi Jaya, thanks for sharing your thoughts.

From your description, it sounds like France is some sort of lawless, racist country. Aren't there any police to maintain peace ? Or is it like Nazi Germany, where the police were the same as the criminals ? If I am misunderstanding the situation, please explain further.


Well, I know it's not my DIR but I am french and live in france, so maybe I can explain a little what's going on... Please remove my post if it's not ok to you.

Dieudonné have made quite a fuss here. He present himself as a comic, but his shows are completely anti semitics, anti jew, and he attract always a big bunch of extreme racists antijew people.
Now the good new is, his shows have been killed, and he is some weird money stuff that is going to cost much to him, especially the place he own where he is making his shows.
Also, a big majority of the people here just completely hate this guy.

Also, what's going on ? The thing is, many sensitive laws like same sex marriage passed recently in France. And all of a sudden, everyone saw the usually silent homophobic, ultra religious rise and protesting in the streets. This going to that, months later, they became quite of a big movement because the racists and anti jews and anti whatever joined them. Those past weeks, they used misinformation to get "ordinary" (meaning, normal people.) to join them, spreading false rumors about masturbation and gender equality being taught at primary school. Following that, they got their ranks fattened up by ordinary parents worried for their childs.

And they are still quite active, making a big fuss in the streets because they want to governement to kill the same sex marriage law, because homosexual people should not have childrens, because they are rapists, because they will marry animals, because childrens will be unhappy, because this is not what God taught, because they don't like this, they don't approve that...

As you can see, stupid people, stupid reasons.

They do not constitute a majority or anything. I've actually seen jew people wearing kipa without having problem.

There is a lot of racism problems. French being racists with the jews. Arabs being racists with the French. This being racists with that. There is a real social and cultural problem in France. But that doesn't mean French are specifically racists or anti jew. Yes, many are. But they do not represent a majority of French people, Majority of French people don't even care about jews and try to survive struggling with the loss of their jobs and the cost of living.

There is one exception however: Paris. That's a whole world in itself. But hey, good news is, Paris is not all France ! :p People should come less to Paris, and more in nicer cities around like Toulouse ! Then you'll see France.

Anyway, I think for more info on the Dieudonné guy, you should probably read french news. 'cause there have been quite a lot happening. Thank God, now it seems settled and this guy is not opening his mouth anymore lastly :facepalm:

Sorry again for posting your DIR :sorry: I just wanted to clear some things up. Not that I like my country, I actually plan to LEAVE it. But it really sadden me, as a French, to be classified as racist or anti-jew because of a big mouthed minority and the sensationalism of many foreign news.
 
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Avi1001

reform Jew humanist liberal feminist entrepreneur
Hi ShivaFan, thanks for sharing your thoughts as well.

I hope you are right, that France is not anti-Semitic, but what I read makes me think otherwise.


Namaste

I hope the French are not anti-Semitic, but I am starting to have some sympathy with the French Right-Wing though I would never ever support anti-semites. Oddly, France is one place I have not yet been to, but will before I am dead. One reason was some stupid bias I had against the French when as a child because of some anti-French opinions my Father imbedded in me as a result of World War Two. He was in Germany (Europe) during the war, and he would tell us the French would "give dirty cloth napkins to foreigners on purpose" (in a restaurant), "insult non-French" and things like that.

But my daughter's love of France helped me over come my prejudice against French. As I grew, also I met many French Canadians, and French from France who came to America and I found them, well, so sweet you want to hug them and you also get very jealous of their beautiful language and art.

But my roots are not French, so I cannot say I know the facts, but no I do not believe the French are anti-Jewish. I am not a Jewish or Jew, so I have not been a victim of such, but I think if anti-semitism exists in France, just as it may be in America or India, it is such a small minority. I think sometimes those politicos who hate the right-wing or conservatives in France overplay this. But caution is always welcome, I am a little worried because of the history of Europe.

Om Namah Sivaya
 
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Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
My wife and I have been following this, and although my first instinct is to assume that his crowd is very specific, my wife says that French from all backgrounds go to his shows.
Right now France is the source of most Jewish immigration to Israel, and there is no point beating around the bush and being politically correct about it, it's because Muslim populations harass and attack them, this is what they tell us, this is what we experience when visiting French urban centers, and this is what those of us who have family in France learn from them.
Attacks against Jewish members of my family are somewhat of a routine.
As for my non Jewish French family, I would characterize them as utterly ignorant about Jewish society or Israel, I haven't felt judged for being Jewish by them (too much), obviously because I lead a secular life. When it comes to Arabs and Muslims, although these people align themselves with standard politically correct European left, in their private life and discourse they are extremely weary of Muslims in France.
I believe France always had a strong anti-Semitic presence alongside its civilized aspects and social progress, however the boom in Muslim immigrant communities has created a new equation and changed the face of cities that are supposed to be the bastions of human liberal, intellectual and cultural achievements post French revolution.
 

Jaskaran Singh

Divosūnupriyaḥ
I believe France always had a strong anti-Semitic presence alongside its civilized aspects and social progress, however the boom in Muslim immigrant communities has created a new equation and changed the face of cities that are supposed to be the bastions of human liberal, intellectual and cultural achievements post French revolution.
Wait, wasn't the French Revolution a mess with the Reign of Terror, Guerre de Vendée, and what not?
 

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
Does the word "post" mean anything in your personal vocabulary? Now please, read posts clearly before taking them off topic or using them to generate debates in our DIR. But to prevent future confusion, I'll elaborate. The French revolution marked the end of the rule of clergy and monarchy and is a cultural ideal of separation of Church and state in Western society, of liberal ideas and intellectual progress. All of wich stand in conflict with recent demographic trends in the country. Now, unless you wish to discuss France today, Jewish society in France, and current affairs involving the two, the Historical Debates forum is at your disposal.
 
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