Are there any concepts that all pagans and/or practitioners of magic agree on?

[-Peacemaker-]

I notice from the conversations I read between magicians that the only thing that they really have in common across the board is the belief that magic exists. They all seem to have a different idea of this power's origins as well as what dieties exist. Are there core concepts in magic and religion that Satanists, Wiccans, and other types of pagans can agree on?

 

[Infinitum]

The basic purpose for all magic(k) is to make your will manifest into reality. After that we're entering into details, like what ways you can accomplish this. I'll let Alan Chapman summarize the modern interpretation of this:

"Magick is the art of experiencing truth. In other words, you can choose any experience (say, dancing around in your underpants), decide what that experience will mean ('It will rain'), undergo the experience (perform the dance), thus rendering the given meaning true (it will rain, because you have experienced the fact 'it will rain'. Experience is the truth). [...] What can be experienced using magick is limited only by your imagination (the subjective), but how that experience manifests is limited by the available means of manifestation (the objective)."

 

[Orias]

I think something that is pretty agreeable is that its dangerous.

 

[Iti oj]

I notice from the conversations I read between magicians that the only thing that they really have in common across the board is the belief that magic exists. They all seem to have a different idea of this power's origins as well as what dieties exist. Are there core concepts in magic and religion that Satanists, Wiccans, and other types of pagans can agree on?

individualism perhaps?

 

[Infinitum]

I think something that is pretty agreeable is that its dangerous.

I'm actually a bit divided on this one. Sure, I've seen delusional people become more delusional after being introduced to certain kinds of magic, but a normal, balanced person isn't likely to hurt herself for casting a few spells. Magick is much about self-exploring, which isn't dangerous either providing you don't have something very traumatic in your past. What is dangerous is the belief, when in a state where someone else is able to manipulate what you experience or feel. So it's a yes and no, it's complicated.

 

[Orias]

When it comes down to your own vital existence.

It is very, very dangerous. Such as existing and being alive can surmount to danger.

The less aware one becomes of things, the more in tune with self destruction they are.

Its not a matter of what one believes it to be, simply because it is greater than anyone can conclude it to be.

Within the essence of life, magic can influence non existence.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Is there any thought given to what the will of whatever spiritual powers exist is? Is there an effort to make sure that the magicians will is in line with the will of a god or do such thoughts not cross their mind? Is there an expectation that a ritual won't be successful if a god doesn't want it to be?

The basic purpose for all magic(k) is to make your will manifest into reality. After that we're entering into details, like what ways you can accomplish this. I'll let Alan Chapman summarize the modern interpretation of this:

"Magick is the art of experiencing truth. In other words, you can choose any experience (say, dancing around in your underpants), decide what that experience will mean ('It will rain'), undergo the experience (perform the dance), thus rendering the given meaning true (it will rain, because you have experienced the fact 'it will rain'. Experience is the truth). [...] What can be experienced using magick is limited only by your imagination (the subjective), but how that experience manifests is limited by the available means of manifestation (the objective)."

 

[Quintessence]

I don't really agree with spellcraft being dangerous either, at least when people make a big fuss about it. Driving your car to work every day is significantly more dangerous than spellcraft.

Regardless, given Neopagan religions are usually non-dogmatic, you're not going to find complete agreement on anything. You may find it within specific traditions, but across the entire spectrum? No way.

 

[Sylvan]

Is there any thought given to what the will of whatever spiritual powers exist is? Is there an effort to make sure that the magicians will is in line with the will of a god or do such thoughts not cross their mind? Is there an expectation that a ritual won't be successful if a god doesn't want it to be?

It depends upon the magician. When you are talking about a god do you mean "the god" (a concept which many magicians including this one would find hogwash)? Rituals can be successful or unsuccessful depending on many factors including the "wills" of the "disembodied" including beings evolved enough to be called gods. Most smart magicians do divination to tailor their approach to a given situation. In many paradigms this is considered to be checking up on the "will" or "patterning" of the "larger universe" connected with one's "Fate". So yeah, it crosses our minds.

 

[Infinitum]

Is there any thought given to what the will of whatever spiritual powers exist is? Is there an effort to make sure that the magicians will is in line with the will of a god or do such thoughts not cross their mind? Is there an expectation that a ritual won't be successful if a god doesn't want it to be?

It depends upon the magician. When you are talking about a god do you mean "the god" (a concept which many magicians including this one would find hogwash)? Rituals can be successful or unsuccessful depending on many factors including the "wills" of the "disembodied" including beings evolved enough to be called gods. Most smart magicians do divination to tailor their approach to a given situation. In many paradigms this is considered to be checking up on the "will" or "patterning" of the "larger universe" connected with one's "Fate". So yeah, it crosses our minds.

Another force that comes to my mind is True Will as often understood by many magicians. Your True Will is connection with Nature or Destiny and if you go against it your magick might not work at all.

 

[blackout]

I think that all adept practitioners would say that Magic-
Alters (expands/focuses/reshapes) your Frame of Mind,
(thought and perception)
and
Changes your State of Being.
(and/or, the State of your Being)

Many things are Cast, Spelled, and Set.

As well, most would probably say it is personally enriching,
and often an excellent method of Self Empowerment.
(and Self Knowledge/Knowing)


Oh, also, Magic is Charming. :curtsy:
But this may just be one Purple Fairy's take. :flirt:

 

[Adramelek]

I think that we all can agree that Magic(k) causes change to occure in one form or another.

Xeper.
/Adramelek\

 

[Quintessence]

I think that we all can agree that Magic(k) causes change to occure in one form or another.

Xeper.
/Adramelek\

*puts on skeptical scientist hat*

The word "cause" in there is a problem. Change happens. Whether or not spellcraft is actually the cause would need to be subject to empirical verification. We can find possible scientific explanations for the efficacy of spellcraft in psychology. I wouldn't necessarily limit to these explanations, but I find them useful to consider.

As an example, if you associate the color red with energy, you can use red as a psychological trigger to give yourself more energy for the day (via the mind-body connection). You can condition anything to be a trigger; if you believe it works, it does. Placebo, to use another word for it, except I don't mean for this to have the flim-flam connotations "placebo" often does in our culture.

 

[Mindmaster]

I notice from the conversations I read between magicians that the only thing that they really have in common across the board is the belief that magic exists. They all seem to have a different idea of this power's origins as well as what dieties exist. Are there core concepts in magic and religion that Satanists, Wiccans, and other types of pagans can agree on?

No.

[Yes, one word answer.]

We don't even agree that we're all pagans! Technically a pagan is required to be polytheistic some are some aren't. So there are Satanists who are pagans and many are not. There are also countless mechanisms of magic and most of them work, but may take time or skill to use. Most of the time strangely enough these deities one chooses are more of an aesthetic or subjective choice that calls to the individual. Certainly, something so basic had a lot to do with the choices I've made; at first I was likely sold on the appearance more than any other concept of being a Satanist -- just as some people embrace nature and become Druids, and some dig being sky clad and go to being Wiccan. Later I found myself admitting other comfortable entities into my pantheon. I feel now that the difference between me and more mainstream pagans is simply the underlying philosophy and goals.

My stab is that many deities possibly exist, but only a few are interested in me or attuned to my nature so why waste time with others if one in fact has such a choice? I feel an affinity in a certain direction so I naturally seek this course anyway.

 

[Quintessence]

Technically, there are many different definitions of pagan in use by the people, several of which have no requirement of polytheism. Some use the word pagan to refer to a non-believer or an atheist. Some use it to refer to anyone who isn't part of the Abrahamic faiths or some other major world religion. I tend to go by a more useful definition of Pagan with proper case, and even then I don't restrict it to polytheism. Paganism with a capital "P" has a pluralistic concept of the divine. That is to say, the ways of looking at deity within Paganism are many, and we don't tend to consider one point of view absolutely correct like you see with some exclusivist monotheistic faiths. The divine is usually acknowledged to be many, but actual practice and worship in Pagan religions can often look like monotheism (aka, henotheism).

Honestly, I'm tired of folks making it about a numbers game in the first place. If someone asks me if I'm a monotheist, I say yes. If they ask me I'm a polytheist, I say yes. When they give me a confused look, I say "that forest over there is composed of a bunch of trees; I can approach the forest or the individual trees within it. It is neither a forest NOR a bunch of trees. It is both and neither."