Are There Any Religious Ascetics On These Forums?

[Trailblazer]

All I can say to that is just be honest with yourself. If you are a theist/deist then so be it.
No need to convince others. It makes an interesting addition to the landscape of beliefs.

Thanks, that is what I do. I am honest with myself and others and if people don't like what I believe that is not my problem. We all have a right to our own beliefs.

 

[Elihoenai]

Do you think asceticism is only for non-married?

Real Asceticism means one of these: That you are a Lifelong Celibate like Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ, John the Baptist and Paul the Apostle. If you cannot do Lifelong Celibacy, if you can bear to have Sex, it must be between mature married Man and Woman for procreation purposes only. This is unpopular and only for a Select Few.

Do you think asceticism is only for non-married?
It's non profit.

Why does Exodus 90 cost money?

Having Non-profit status doesn't mean anything given that every Christian Church in the United States has Non-profit status and classified Public Charities. For the Earthly Church making money from Ministry is normal.

Public Charities

A private foundation is any domestic or foreign organization described in section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code except for an organization referred to in section 509(a)(1), (2), (3), or (4). In effect, the definition divides section 501(c)(3) organizations into two classes: private foundations and public charities.

Public Charities | Internal Revenue Service

 

[Elihoenai]

Sorry I lost track of this conversation. My husband is very ill and might die, yet another thing to add to the list of my long suffering I told you about previously...

Does your husband believe in and practice the Baháʼí Faith? Everything that happens is the Will of Elohim/God and a Message from Elohim/God. Have you worked out what Elohim/God is telling you from your husband's illness?

I cannot see how one could leave Abstinence from Sex out of an ascetic program.I fully agree that people are obsessed with sex, and it is a very sad commentary on human nature and what people live for. This is not what we were created for... We were not created to live for the things of this world.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Die to Your Flesh and Live

Matthew 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Those 'things' are the things of the flesh, which are not of God, but of the world. If Christians don't want to face that fact then they are going against what Jesus said.

My religion also has something to say about sex and desire.

"Would that ye had the power to perceive the things your Lord, the All-Merciful, doth see—things that attest the excellence of your rank, that bear witness to the greatness of your worth, that proclaim the sublimity of your station! God grant that your desires and unmortified passions may not hinder you from that which hath been ordained for you." Gleanings, p. 317

"Suffer not the habitation wherein dwelleth My undying love for thee to be destroyed through the tyranny of covetous desires, and overcloud not the beauty of the heavenly Youth with the dust of self and passion. Clothe thyself with the essence of righteousness, and let thine heart be afraid of none except God." Gleanings, p. 323

Romans 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

It's not Real Asceticism given that a program leaves out Abstinence from Sex. They leave it out of an Ascetic program to make it relatively Popular. With a Carnal Mind it's impossible to stop having Sex or Sexual Desire.

 

[Elihoenai]

" Galatians 6:17 "

It is not from Jesus, therefore, it is not a reliable source of guidance for those who follow Yeshua- the Israelite Messiah, in the ethical, moral and or spiritual matters, I understand. Right?

Regards

What is your view on Asceticism?

 

[Elihoenai]

Some years ago, when I was a strong Theist, I lived as a renunciate(for 8 years) in the religion I was in. All the above points, apart from 9, were forbidden.

What happened? Were you transformed by this Renunciation? Did you draw closer and closer to Elohim/God during this period? Have you reverted back to former ways since you left Renunciation? I read that you are now an Atheist. Why did you become an Atheist after 8 years of Renunciation experience?

 

[PearlSeeker]

Real Asceticism means one of these: That you are a Lifelong Celibate like Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ, John the Baptist and Paul the Apostle. If you cannot do Lifelong Celibacy, if you can bear to have Sex, it must be between mature married Man and Woman for procreation purposes only. This is unpopular and only for a Select Few.

What do you mean with "bear to have sex"? Most people find it pleasurable.

IMO marital sex is not only for the purpose of procreation. It's also an act of mutual gift, intimacy, refreshment, enlivenment...

1 Cor 7 says that for the married abstinence from sex is recommended only for a short time...

"... each has his own gift from God, one in this way, and another in that."

 

[Jedster]

@Elihoenai

What happened? Were you transformed by this Renunciation?

It was just one of the lifestyles recommended for single people(the other was householder for couples)
I just chose the one I was living anyway.

Did you draw closer and closer to Elohim/God during this period?

I believed so, because I felt it was the correct style for me.
I lived in the ashram with others like me.

Have you reverted back to former ways since you left Renunciation?

Renunciation style ended because the guru closed it down.
I married another member of the order and became a householder. I believed that that kept me in the guru's grace(favour)

I read that you are now an Atheist. Why did you become an Atheist after 8 years of Renunciation experience?

It was after 23 years that I left the guru.
The belief was that god is 'all the energy in existence' and could be known only via this Guru who is the Satguru(the one true guru) of the age. We worshipped the guru who is greater than god because only the satguru can reveal god/truth.
So god was never theistic, just energy. It was the satguru that makes everything happen that happens.

I left when after some serious things happened and I realized that this person is disingenuous, to say the least. My whole belief structure collapsed and I did a forensic examination of my beliefs and how I arrived there.
This was helped by speaking to members of the other similar groups & religions, both members and ex-members.

 

[Trailblazer]

Does your husband believe in and practice the Baháʼí Faith? Everything that happens is the Will of Elohim/God and a Message from Elohim/God. Have you worked out what Elohim/God is telling you from your husband's illness?

Everything is the will of God but all tragedies we encounter in life are not necessarily a message from God to us.

Yes, my husband is a Baha'i. Nobody can know if God is telling them anything and even if Gid is trying to tell them something, they can never know what God is telling them, they can only imagine they know. It is problematic when people imagine they know what God is telling them and act on it. For example, they might imagine that God is telling them to give up and stop fighting the disease when in fact that is not the case at all. The "I know" of the human ego is very powerful.

Romans 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

It's not Real Asceticism given that a program leaves out Abstinence from Sex. They leave it out of an Ascetic program to make it relatively Popular. With a Carnal Mind it's impossible to stop having Sex or Sexual Desire.

No, it's not Real Asceticism if a program leaves out Abstinence from Sex. Without Abstinence there will always be Sexual Desire. The same principle applies to any physical pleasures people are attached to. For example, as long as people smoke or drink alcohol they will desire tobacco or alcohol.

 

[Elihoenai]

What do you mean with "bear to have sex"? Most people find it pleasurable.

IMO marital sex is not only for the purpose of procreation. It's also an act of mutual gift, intimacy, refreshment, enlivenment...

1 Cor 7 says that for the married abstinence from sex is recommended only for a short time...

"... each has his own gift from God, one in this way, and another in that."

1 Corinthians 7:1

7 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.


Having Sex is Fleshy Activity. Almost every person on the planet finds Sex pleasurable, that's why they leave it out of a so-called Ascetic program. You can lead people astray about what Asceticism really means and make money that way.

You should read the content on this thread before your continue. These posts are for those that want to join the Elite Elect. The Elite Elect follow Yeshua Mesiah/Jesus Christ end of. Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ is Celibate.

 

[Elihoenai]

@Jedster Your Testimony is Valuable.

@Elihoenai

What happened? Were you transformed by this Renunciation?

It was just one of the lifestyles recommended for single people(the other was householder for couples)
I just chose the one I was living anyway.

It sound like you were not really transformed. You just continued to do what you were doing before.

Did you draw closer and closer to Elohim/God during this period?

I believed so, because I felt it was the correct style for me.
I lived in the ashram with others like me.

It sounds like you are not sure. Given that the Guru was False, it means that you were not really drawing closer and closer to Elohim/God, as you supposed.

Have you reverted back to former ways since you left Renunciation?

Renunciation style ended because the guru closed it down.
I married another member of the order and became a householder. I believed that that kept me in the guru's grace(favour)

Real Asceticism is not dependent on a Man to keep it going. Real Asceticism is Inner and not External as you are describing.

I read that you are now an Atheist. Why did you become an Atheist after 8 years of Renunciation experience?

It was after 23 years that I left the guru.
The belief was that god is 'all the energy in existence' and could be known only via this Guru who is the Satguru(the one true guru) of the age. We worshipped the guru who is greater than god because only the satguru can reveal god/truth.
So god was never theistic, just energy. It was the satguru that makes everything happen that happens.

I left when after some serious things happened and I realized that this person is disingenuous, to say the least. My whole belief structure collapsed and I did a forensic examination of my beliefs and how I arrived there.
This was helped by speaking to members of the other similar groups & religions, both members and ex-members.

Psalm 146:3-4

3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.

4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.


This explains why you became an Atheist. You built your Foundation on a Man and when the notion of the Man Collapsed so did your beliefs. Billions of Christians make this mistake by following the Priest/Pastor rather than what Elohim/God tells them to do.

 

[Elihoenai]

Everything is the will of God but all tragedies we encounter in life are not necessarily a message from God to us.

Yes, my husband is a Baha'i. Nobody can know if God is telling them anything and even if Gid is trying to tell them something, they can never know what God is telling them, they can only imagine they know. It is problematic when people imagine they know what God is telling them and act on it. For example, they might imagine that God is telling them to give up and stop fighting the disease when in fact that is not the case at all. The "I know" of the human ego is very powerful.

Isaiah 45:7

7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

This is where we are opposed in Doctrine. Elohim/God is Flesh, Soul and Spirit. Everything that happens is a message from Elohim/God because nothing exists outside of Elohim/God and everything that exists is Elohim/God. @Trailblazer Your belief system means that you cannot hear Elohim/God. There are many that make False Claims about hearing Elohim/God and a Few that have Supernatural Powers that hear Elohim/God all the time. Do you believe in the Supernatural? Do you believe in an Afterlife?

No, it's not Real Asceticism if a program leaves out Abstinence from Sex. Without Abstinence there will always be Sexual Desire. The same principle applies to any physical pleasures people are attached to. For example, as long as people smoke or drink alcohol they will desire tobacco or alcohol.

With a Carnal Mind it's not possible to stop having Sex and/or Sexual Desire. With a Carnal Mind if you abstain from Sex you will always have Sexual Desire. Having Sexual Desire is not Real Asceticism.

 

[Jedster]

@Jedster


It sound like you were not really transformed. You just continued to do what you were doing before.
Yes, I could have lived that lifestyle alone, the Guru said that singles should in the ashram because that meant you were dedicating your life to him and his mission. By no means did all singles go into the ashram, not everyone listened to his every word or followed his agya(commands). People got off on 'the vibe'.




It sounds like you are not sure. Given that the Guru was False, it means that you were not really drawing closer and closer to Elohim/God, as you supposed.

Well, obviously at that time I didn't believe the Guru was false. His agya reigned supreme in my mind.
However, in the meditation I was having deep experiences, which I believed was the Guru's grace.

It was only in the latter years, that meditation helped me realize that I was wrong to attribute my inner experiences with anyone else.
The meditation helped me draw closer to my own being not anyone else's or any god. Anyone can meditate and look within, with or without any beliefs.





Real Asceticism is not dependent on a Man to keep it going. Real Asceticism is Inner and not External as you are describing.

Call it what you will. It is true that I have not dealt with my inner experiences here to any depth, because they are personal to my own life journey. Anyone can meditate & look within for themselves.
As I said above
The meditation helped me draw closer to my own being not anyone else's or any god. Anyone can meditate and look within, with or without any beliefs.




Psalm 146:3-4

3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
Good advice. Nice

4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
This is saying, when someone dies they get buried and have no more thoughts.
I already knew that.

This explains why you became an Atheist. You built your Foundation on a Man and when the notion of the Man Collapsed so did your beliefs. Billions of Christians make this mistake by following the Priest/Pastor rather than what Elohim/God tells them to do.

You got it right about me. I don't know about Christians.

 

[Elihoenai]

It sound like you were not really transformed. You just continued to do what you were doing before.
Yes, I could have lived that lifestyle alone, the Guru said that singles should in the ashram because that meant you were dedicating your life to him and his mission. By no means did all singles go into the ashram, not everyone listened to his every word or followed his agya(commands). People got off on 'the vibe'.

Is this part of the Hindu Tradition? Did you have Scriptures to compare what the Guru was teaching? What would you say was the Ultimate Purpose the Disciples were following the Guru?

It sounds like you are not sure. Given that the Guru was False, it means that you were not really drawing closer and closer to Elohim/God, as you supposed.

Well, obviously at that time I didn't believe the Guru was false. His agya reigned supreme in my mind.
However, in the meditation I was having deep experiences, which I believed was the Guru's grace.

It was only in the latter years, that meditation helped me realize that I was wrong to attribute my inner experiences with anyone else.
The meditation helped me draw closer to my own being not anyone else's or any god. Anyone can meditate and look within, with or without any beliefs.

Is this the Guru–shishya tradition?

Guru–shishya tradition

The guru–shishya tradition, or parampara ("lineage"), denotes a succession of teachers and disciples in Indian-origin religions such as Hinduism, Jainism, Sikhism and Buddhism (including Tibetan and Zen traditions). Each parampara belongs to a specific sampradaya, and may have its own gurukulas for teaching, which might be based at akharas, gompas, mathas, viharas or temples. It is the tradition of spiritual relationship and mentoring where teachings are transmitted from a guru, teacher, (Sanskrit: गुरु) or lama, to a śiṣya (Sanskrit: शिष्य, disciple), shramana (seeker), or chela (follower), after the formal diksha (initiation). Such knowledge, whether agamic, spiritual, scriptural, architectural, musical, arts or martial arts, is imparted through the developing relationship between the guru and the disciple.

It is considered that this relationship, based on the genuineness of the guru and the respect, commitment, devotion and obedience of the student, is the best way for subtle or advanced knowledge to be conveyed. The student eventually masters the knowledge that the guru embodies.

Guru–shishya tradition - Wikipedia


Therefore, are you saying that the purpose of the Ascetic Lifestyle and total Obedience to the Guru was not to Seek Elohim/God and draw closer to Elohim/God?

Real Asceticism is not dependent on a Man to keep it going. Real Asceticism is Inner and not External as you are describing.

Call it what you will. It is true that I have not dealt with my inner experiences here to any depth, because they are personal to my own life journey. Anyone can meditate & look within for themselves.
As I said above
The meditation helped me draw closer to my own being not anyone else's or any god. Anyone can meditate and look within, with or without any beliefs.

Yes, anyone can meditate and look within. The Purpose for doing so is All-Important. Did you have the concept of Sin in the Ashram? Did the Guru teach about Sin?

 

[Jedster]

Is this part of the Hindu Tradition? Did you have Scriptures to compare what the Guru was teaching? What would you say was the Ultimate Purpose the Disciples were following the Guru?

Well, I followed him because of who I believed he was. The incarnation of truth. Who better to live one's life with and then merge with him at the end(of life).




Is this the Guru–shishya tradition?

No.
He was in a line of Perfect Masters(Satgurus), the incarnation of each generation.
Officially there was no succession. The Perfect Master of any generation could be anybody. A king, a weaver, a boxer,,,anything.
The PM would give devotees a direct experience of truth/god and teach techniques to meditate on the truth within.
The PM's group I was with did not recognise any other group as authentic. The disciples could be of any religion or no religion.



Therefore, are you saying that the purpose of the Ascetic Lifestyle and total Obedience to the Guru was not to Seek Elohim/God and draw closer to Elohim/God?

The Guru was everything. A living experience.

Yes, anyone can meditate and look within. The Purpose for doing so is All-Important. Did you have the concept of Sin in the Ashram? Did the Guru teach about Sin?

Not really.
The most important thing was to surrender all your actions to the Guru.

 

[Elihoenai]

Is this part of the Hindu Tradition? Did you have Scriptures to compare what the Guru was teaching? What would you say was the Ultimate Purpose the Disciples were following the Guru?

Well, I followed him because of who I believed he was. The incarnation of truth. Who better to live one's life with and then merge with him at the end(of life).




Is this the Guru–shishya tradition?

No.
He was in a line of Perfect Masters(Satgurus), the incarnation of each generation.
Officially there was no succession. The Perfect Master of any generation could be anybody. A king, a weaver, a boxer,,,anything.
The PM would give devotees a direct experience of truth/god and teach techniques to meditate on the truth within.
The PM's group I was with did not recognise any other group as authentic. The disciples could be of any religion or no religion.



Therefore, are you saying that the purpose of the Ascetic Lifestyle and total Obedience to the Guru was not to Seek Elohim/God and draw closer to Elohim/God?

The Guru was everything. A living experience.

Yes, anyone can meditate and look within. The Purpose for doing so is All-Important. Did you have the concept of Sin in the Ashram? Did the Guru teach about Sin?

Not really.
The most important thing was to surrender all your actions to the Guru.

Readers will get confused because mine and your questions and statements are getting mixed up.

Therefore the Guru, asserted himself as Elohim/God and took the place of Elohim/God. The Guru is an Idol to those that follow him. Idol Worship has been going on for thousands of years and only a few thousand people on the planet out of 8 Billions of people don't Worship an Idol.

The Guru is a False Elohim/God Idol. That means you didn't practice Real Asceticism because Idol Worship is Strictly Forbidden in True Asceticism.


The Man who would be King Movie Trailer

 

[Jedster]

Readers will get confused because mine and your questions and statements are getting mixed up.

Therefore the Guru, asserted himself as Elohim/God and took the place of Elohim/God. The Guru is an Idol to those that follow him. Idol Worship has been going on for thousands of years and only a few thousand people on the planet out of 8 Billions of people don't Worship an Idol.

The Guru is a False Elohim/God Idol. That means you didn't practice Real Asceticism because Idol Worship is Strictly Forbidden in True Asceticism.


The Man who would be King Movie Trailer

I tried my best to explain my own experience. You have made your own conclusions.
I answered your 10 point post because the points fitted me.
So, according to you I didn't practice Real Asceticism.

That is fine by me.
I won't do it again

 

[Elihoenai]

I tried my best to explain my own experience. You have made your own conclusions.
I answered your 10 point post because the points fitted me.
So, according to you I didn't practice Real Asceticism.

That is fine by me.
I won't do it again

You made it clear that you practiced Asceticism in total obedience to the Guru. The Guru is a False Elohim/God Idol.

Remember I'm an Ultra Non-Violent Conservative Christian Extremist. The Sole Purpose of Asceticism in Ultra Conservative Christianity is closer and closer Union with Elohim/God by destroying the Sin/Flesh Body.

False Elohim/God Idol Worship is Sin/Flesh. That means, the Asceticism your practiced was in Worship to the Devil/Satan and, therefore, was not Real Ascetism from an Ultra Conservative Christian Extremist perspective.

Here is another teaching on Asceticism:

Nietzsche: Asceticism

 

[Jedster]

You made it clear that you practiced Asceticism in total obedience to the Guru. The Guru is a False Elohim/God Idol.

Remember I'm an Ultra Non-Violent Conservative Christian Extremist. The Sole Purpose of Asceticism in Ultra Conservative Christianity is closer and closer Union with Elohim/God by destroying the Sin/Flesh Body.

False Elohim/God Idol Worship is Sin/Flesh. That means, the Asceticism your practiced was in Worship to the Devil/Satan and, therefore, was not Real Ascetism from an Ultra Conservative Christian Extremist perspective.

Here is another teaching on Asceticism:

Nietzsche: Asceticism

"False Elohim/God Idol Worship is Sin/Flesh. That means, the Asceticism your practiced was in Worship to the Devil/Satan and, therefore, was not Real Ascetism from an Ultra Conservative Christian Extremist perspective."

As you say it's from your perspective.
I never believed in the devil/satan being a real being, but rather a metaphor for bad actions/thoughts.
I view all scriptures as metaphor, perhaps with some history mixed. They tell me of the age of the time and hold no authority(imo).
My preference is towards Dharmic writings which I find easy to understand and celebrates life.

 

[Elihoenai]

"False Elohim/God Idol Worship is Sin/Flesh. That means, the Asceticism your practiced was in Worship to the Devil/Satan and, therefore, was not Real Ascetism from an Ultra Conservative Christian Extremist perspective."

As you say it's from your perspective.
I never believed in the devil/satan being a real being, but rather a metaphor for bad actions/thoughts.
I view all scriptures as metaphor, perhaps with some history mixed. They tell me of the age of the time and hold no authority(imo).
My preference is towards Dharmic writings which I find easy to understand and celebrates life.

Matthew 28:18

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.


Christians know that the Devil/Satan is a Real Being and that's why they Control those nations practising Inferior Dharmic Religions. Elohim/God has given Christians Dominion and Power over all Non-Christian Nations through Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ.


American marines singing "Days of Elijah" (Lirycs)

 

[Jedster]

@Elihoenai
Why are you using replies to preach when you know I am an atheist?
Quotes from the Bible have no authority for me.

And this is bordering upon hate speech
Christians know that the Devil/Satan is a Real B eing and that's why they Control those nations practising Inferior Dharmic Religions. Elohim/God has given Christians Dominion and Power over all Non-Christian Nations through Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ.

It seems to me that you are only here to propagate your own extremism.

You would gain much by reading some of the Dharmic writings. would recommend that you start with the Guru Granth Sahib, the Sikh scripture,