Are there two God's words?

[savagewind]

People will say it is not possible to straighten out God word. I find that opinion the saddest thing I know.

 

[Desert Snake]

Are you laughing at me or with me? And am I right that is lol with an extra l? What is it for?

Lol I think it just means your laughing..like an extra laugh example -->! &!!

 

[savagewind]

Lol I think it just means your laughing..like an extra laugh example -->! &!!

OK. But.....but.....it means another laugh. Oh god!

 

[savagewind]

I mean another LOUD.

 

[savagewind]

What do you think is more important to God, reader?
That God transmits truth or corrects lies?

 

[savagewind]

Tell me why God would correct a person's lies? If a person would lie he isn't worthy of the presence of the Lord. Correct?
http://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Returning-To-God

 

[Rise]

YOU need to support your belief that Jesus believed and believes [He lives. Correct?]that all the Hebrew scriptures were and are good and right.

I've already done that for you here:

Jesus is recorded as quoting authoritatively from dozens of old testament books as Scripture and affirming their truth.

Never once does He rebuke the people for believing something that is written in scripture. He only rebukes people for believing in the non-biblical traditions of men.

You asked for evidence that all of scripture is God's Word. I pointed out to you that Jesus referred to scripture as the Word of God and quotes from most of the Old Testament books. Furthermore, he never rebukes anyone for believing in scripture but affirms many times to people that they should believe what is written. He never corrects scripture and tells them it has been recorded wrong. It's reasonable to think that if Jesus had said such things it would have caused conflict with the religious leaders; but no such conflict is seen.
You've also quoted scriptures that demonstrate the apostles considered scripture to be God breathed, and I can show you from the earliest church fathers that they considered the same scripture to be God's inspired word.

I would call all that significant and solid evidence to your original question.

There is no record of any instance where Jesus told the Pharisees they were wrong to believe in the written scripture. The only record we have is of Jesus affirming the inspiration of scripture.

That's what we call strong support for my belief.

You haven't yet said anything which would demonstrate why my statements or logic is wrong.

I've also challenged you to affirm with some kind of evidence why we should believe Jesus did not view the scripture we have today as God breathed. You haven't attempted to do that either.

You're demanding something more from me for my belief, some more evidence or proof; but when I asked you want more it would take for you believe Jesus had a high view of all the scripture we have today you basically said "I don't know". Well, if you don't know, then the answer is probably nothing. It seems you've already made up your mind about what you think is true regardless of what the evidence shows us.

You could make a claim that Jesus rode around on a pink elephant, and then justify it by saying it was just never written down; but the onus is still on you to prove why we should believe that your claim has even a remote possibility of being true.

Please provide all the scriptures which say what you are claiming.

I'd be happy to provide you with scriptures, but your request here makes no sense in the context of what you were quoting.

What specifically are you asking me to demonstrate from scripture?

At the end of this your post you say you believe some words were copied wrong. Do you not? And were no ancient Hebrew words of scripture copied wrong?

No, I think you are. You are changing one GREEK word μαθητεύσατε (Strongs 3100 - http://biblehub.com/greek/3100.htm a VERB) into two words a verb make, which isn't there and a noun disciple which is written as a verb. Please do not pretend anymore that you do not understand.

There are four problems with your statements:
1. Your complaint about the making one word into two is invalid and only shows you don't understand how translations in general work. No translation is ever just a literal replacement of one word with another because languages have completely different grammar rules and word types that cannot be directly translated 1 for 1. If you tried doing a 1 for 1 replacement of words then you'd find that your translation is unreadable.

2. I already told you that some translations translate this passage as a verb. So if you insist it has to be that way then it's already been done and you are left without a complaint.

3. I challenged you as to why this even is an issue given the fact that regardless of whether it's translated "Make disciples of the nations" or "disciple all the nations" it still essentially means the same thing. A translation's job is to translate meaning to the reader. Of all the examples you could possibly give, this one is exceptionally weak because it's not going to have any impact on someone's understanding of God's call on us. You haven't attempted to demonstrate why it even matters in this instance, which undermines your point.

4. You are making a profound logic error when you try to prove that the Hebrew and Greek texts that have been passed down by scribes are wrong by pointing to an area where you think a particular English Bible has translated those documents wrong. That makes no sense at all. Why do you think pointing to a supposed mistranslation of an English Bible has any relevance to the subject of whether or not the masoretic Hebrew text was accurately copied by scribes over thousands of years?

 

[savagewind]

@Rise Please listen this time. And then I am through with you.

I believe that all scripture which Jesus referenced was God breathed. It is true that it is not written down that he ever condemned anyone for believing something was God breathed but wasn't really. You got that right. I think his work was to tell the truth and wasn't to point out untruth.

Please listen. IF he had publically criticised the Hebrew scriptures for anything THEN that is what he would have been found guilty of. GOD wanted him to be remembered as God's son and NOT as a human agent for correcting scripture. Scripture can be and should be corrected INSIDE a person with the help of The Holy Spirit.

REPEAT. IF he had publically criticised the Hebrew scriptures for anything THEN that is what he would have been found guilty of.

Also, it was not the time to foster doubt because the people had no way to find a solution. NOW WE DO.

 

[Rise]

@Rise
I believe that all scripture which Jesus referenced was God breathed.

Please listen. IF he had publically criticised the Hebrew scriptures for anything THEN that is what he would have been found guilty of. GOD wanted him to be remembered as God's son and NOT as a human agent for correcting scripture.

The problem with your position, as I've already pointed out to you several times: Is that you don't offer a single piece of evidence that would lead us to believe that Jesus thought any of the Old Testament should not be considered divine scripture.

You make a positive assertion that the only reason Jesus did not criticize the Old Testament is because God didn't want him to die for that reason. Ok, I understand you believe that. Now evidence it somehow. Show why it could possibly be true. Just claiming it's true doesn't make it true.

Everything we see in the gospels (where Jesus quotes profusely from the Old Testament and refers to it as the Wisdom and Word of God), the epistles (who recognize scripture as God Breathed), and the early church fathers (who I can also quote as viewing scripture as the inspired Word of God) disagrees with your view of scripture and Jesus.

So, in light of the great body of evidence we have that shows Jesus did consider the Old Testament authoritative, to not have a single piece of evidence that supports your personal viewpoint gives us no reason to believe it could be true. And at that point, if you personally care about the pursuit of real truth, you should begin to question why you even believe it.

It is true that it is not written down that he ever condemned anyone for believing something was God breathed but wasn't really. You got that right.I think his work was to tell the truth and wasn't to point out untruth.

Matthew 23:23-24
Matthew 5:38-39
There's a significant amount of gospel space devoted to Jesus telling people they are doing wrong or believing a lie, so your perception of the gospels is not true.

Your statement is logically a contradiction anyway, because the very process of telling people the truth always involves pointing out what is not true (even if indirectly). This is because there is by definition only one truth. Declaring what is true automatically declares everything else in opposition to that truth to be a lie.

 

[Rajina]

The Bible says the son of God is God's Word but many people say the Bible is God 's word.
Are they both God's word?

The Qur'an gives a clear explanation about how Jesus is the word of God and how Bible is the word of God.

According to Qur'an , if God wants to create something He just have to say 'be' and then it comes into existence.

"It is He who gives life and causes death; and when He decrees a matter, He but says to it, ‘Be,’ and it is." (Quran 40:68)


The first step in human procreation is the biological union between male and female reproductive cells in addition to the will of God. Since Jesus was born without a father, he was not conceived by the male sperm cells. Instead God says that creation of Jesus was like that of creation of Adam.

"Indeed the likeness of Jesus to God as the likeness of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, ‘Be,’ and he was." (Quran 3:59)

The Quran gives a detailed explanation about the birth of Jesus. Mary was not impregnated by a man. Angel Gabriel, referred to in the Quran as the Spirit, brought the soul of Jesus – his soul was created by God like other human souls - to breathe it into Mary. On seeing the angel, she expressed with surprise,

"‘My Lord,’ said Mary, how shall I have a son when no man has ever touched me?"(Quran 3:47)

The angel answered,

"Thus it is: God creates what He wills: When he decrees a matter, He only says to it: ‘Be,’ and it is." (Quran 3:47)

Gabriel then blew the soul of Jesus into Mary, "so We blew into it (her womb) through Our angel." (Quran 66:12)

In essence, Jesus is God’s ‘Word’ because he came into existence by God’s Word - ‘Be’ - as the Quran describes in another passage,

"His word which He conveyed unto Mary..." (Quran 4:171)

The original gospel is the word of God in the sense that its contents was a message from God. Which means that it was a scripture from God. The words in it was the words of God.

"It is He Who has sent down the Book (the Qur'an) to you with truth, confirming what came before it. And He sent down the Taurat (Torah) and the injeel (Gospel)"
(Quran3:3)

"And in their footsteps, We sent 'Îsa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), confirming the Taurat (Torah) that had come before him, and We gave him the injeel (Gospel), in which was guidance and light and confirmation of the Taurat (Torah) that had come before it, a guidance and an admonition for Al-Muttaqun (the pious)"
(Qur'an 5:46)

"And if only they had acted according to the Taurat (Torah), the injeel (Gospel), and what has (now) been sent down to them from their Lord (the Qur'an), they would surely have gotten provision from above them and from underneath their feet. There are from among them people who are on the right course, but many of them do evil deeds. "
Qur'an(5:66)

"(Remember) when Allah will say (on the Day of Resurrection). "O 'Îsa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)! Remember My Favour to you and to your mother when I supported you with Ruh-ul-Qudus [Jibril (Gabriel)] so that you spoke to the people in the cradle and in maturity; and when I taught you writing, Al-Hikmah (the power of understanding), the Taurat (Torah) and theinjeel (Gospel); and when you made out of the clay a figure like that of a bird, by My Permission, and you breathed into it, and it became a bird by My Permission, and you healed those born blind, and the lepers by My Permission, and when you brought forth the dead by My Permission; and when I restrained the Children of Israel from you (when they resolved to kill you) as you came unto them with clear proofs, and the disbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.'"
Quran(5:110)