Are These Grounds for Legalizing Pedophilia?

[Enai de a lukal]

Hm. Well, I don't think what kind of person (or object, or animal, or whatever) I happen to be sexually attracted to is all that significant a factor in the potpourri of characteristics that make me up. And I don't see why pedophiles would feel differently.

Basically, it doesn't really matter who you're attracted to. What matters is how you behave. I'm not "disturbed" by any of my own criminal impulses (there are a few politicians and dictators I'd like to poison), since I know I'm not going to act on any of them. It's just not that big a deal.

Well, I think its an absolutely fair point that, whatever the cause, sexual attraction towards children is disconcerting, even as a mere urge or impulse rather than an act, in that it is an urge to do something that is extremely harmful. Its not just a "oh, to each their own" sort of thing. It is on par with homicidal ideation, or fantasizing about rape, in that sense. On the other hand, I think its also important to point out that the urge itself is not really something one can control- so as such, it deserves treatment, rather than demonization and condemnation. Not only from a moral standpoint (how are we morally condeming someone for something they can't control?), but from a practical standpoint as well- if the mere attraction to children is so strongly stigmatized that pedophiles are too intimidated to seek treatment, then it would seem they're more likely to harm children. Better to encourage them to seek treatment, by making it clear that what is wrong is acting on the urge to have sexual relations with children- not the urge itself.

 

[dawny0826]

Because our attractions, desires, fetishes, fantasies, etc. are not at all a window into aspects of our psychology, right?

The distinction that's been made is that the attraction, desire, fetish, fantasy, etc. is not synonymous with action, though these are important aspects of our personality and psyche, of course.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Because our attractions, desires, fetishes, fantasies, etc. are not at all a window into aspects of our psychology, right?

At what point would you see someone's attractions, desires, fetishes and fantasies as becoming something society should act on?

 

[dawny0826]

Well, I think its an absolutely fair point that, whatever the cause, sexual attraction towards children is disconcerting, even as a mere urge or impulse rather than an act, in that it is an urge to do something that is extremely harmful. Its not just a "oh, to each their own" sort of thing. It is on par with homicidal ideation, or fantasizing about rape, in that sense. On the other hand, I think its also important to point out that the urge itself is not really something one can control- so as such, it deserves treatment, rather than demonization and condemnation. Not only from a moral standpoint (how are we morally condeming someone for something they can't control?), but from a practical standpoint as well- if the mere attraction to children is so strongly stigmatized that pedophiles are too intimidated to seek treatment, then it would seem they're more likely to harm children. Better to encourage them to seek treatment, by making it clear that what is wrong is acting on the urge to have sexual relations with children- not the urge itself.

I think you've hit the nail on the head, right here.

 

[dawny0826]

At what point would you see someone's attractions, desires, fetishes and fantasies as becoming something society should act on?

When they infringe upon, harm or violate the rights of another.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

But, we also talked about necrophilia and how necrophiliacs have to go into the "underground" and sometimes get caught up in criminal circles because they can't find acceptable outlets for urges.

So, when applying this same concept to a pedophiles, what are acceptable outlets that would not violate the rights of others?

I wasn't only referring to necrophiles there. I was talking about people who have socially unacceptable desires in general. The child pornography underground was specifically something I had in mind there. Zoosexual porn isn't illegal in most places. Sex with animals itself isn't illegal everywhere and zoophiles who really want to do it with an animal, do it. Necrophiles can look at the various pictures and videos of dead people that are all over the Internet. If that's not enough, they can always work at a morgue or mortuary (which does happen, although it's very rare)!

For people who have attractions to children, there's fantasies, ageplay, having sex with a young looking legal teenager. Etc. Most people who have taboo desires that would be illegal to fulfill in their fullness make do with fantasy scenarios to tide them over.

 

[LuisDantas]

It is on par with homicidal ideation, or fantasizing about rape, in that sense.

Perhaps. But how common do you think those are?

Keep in mind that there is a spectrum of intensity here. Much like not everyone who likes beer is an alcoholic prone to DUI episodes, not everyone who has homicidal or rape fantasies will ever actually act on it or even attempt to.

Pedophily as a tendency seems to be no different.

That said, just as an exercise, try to guess how many of the adult people you meet at a typical week of your life have no fantasies whatsoever involving homicide or rape during that same week.

I am not sure there will be any, frankly. I know that I do not assume that of anyone, nor do I think it would be fair to think less of anyone for having those fantasies.

Having enough self-control to not act on those fantasies, now that is something else entirely. That I do expect of pretty much everyone I deal with.

I may easily know pedophiles without being aware of that, and that is fine by me as long as they, too, do not act on those impulses except on circunstances that ensure the safety of any actual youngsters or other people that would rather not participate on the expression of their desires.

 

[Copy Paper]

ew - please don't legalize it - it's icky and disgusting - can't believe you guys are even debating about this stuff - ew

 

[Alceste]

Because our attractions, desires, fetishes, fantasies, etc. are not at all a window into aspects of our psychology, right?

Sure, but you were implying that we are so overwhelmed and dominated by our sexual fantasies that having a particularly icky one would leave one feeling perpetually disturbed. For me, personally, that isn't the case.

 

[Alceste]

Well, I think its an absolutely fair point that, whatever the cause, sexual attraction towards children is disconcerting, even as a mere urge or impulse rather than an act, in that it is an urge to do something that is extremely harmful. Its not just a "oh, to each their own" sort of thing. It is on par with homicidal ideation, or fantasizing about rape, in that sense. On the other hand, I think its also important to point out that the urge itself is not really something one can control- so as such, it deserves treatment, rather than demonization and condemnation. Not only from a moral standpoint (how are we morally condeming someone for something they can't control?), but from a practical standpoint as well- if the mere attraction to children is so strongly stigmatized that pedophiles are too intimidated to seek treatment, then it would seem they're more likely to harm children. Better to encourage them to seek treatment, by making it clear that what is wrong is acting on the urge to have sexual relations with children- not the urge itself.

I completely agree.

 

[Alceste]

ew - please don't legalize it - it's icky and disgusting - can't believe you guys are even debating about this stuff - ew

Too late. Pedophilia is already legal. It's only sexually assaulting children that isn't.

 

[Copy Paper]

Too late. Pedophilia is already legal. It's only sexually assaulting children that isn't.

really?? how is it legal? please, excuse me - i'm not well versed in law - talking about US/Canada/Europe?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

really?? how is it legal? please, excuse me - i'm not well versed in law - talking about US/Canada/Europe?

Are you serious? You can be attracted to whoever/whatever you like. You can fantasize about it, talk about it with other people (age appropriate people), collect (legal) pictures of kids, talk about it on message boards, etc.

It's just not legal to have child porn or to have sex with kids.

 

[Copy Paper]

Are you serious? You can be attracted to whoever/whatever you like. You can fantasize about it, talk about it with other people (age appropriate people), collect (legal) pictures of kids, talk about it on message boards, etc.

It's just not legal to have child porn or to have sex with kids.

eww

well, anyway - since it is "legal", i hope more can be done to research on the urges that affect them and find a way to control them

i still don't like it - it's disgusting

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

eww

well, anyway - since it is "legal", i hope more can be done to research on the urges that affect them and find a way to control them

i still don't like it - it's disgusting

It's not illegal to be attracted to anyone or anything. I'm not sure what you were thinking.

They can't do anything to someone who has not committed a crime. If they tried, it would be a violation of their human rights.

 

[Copy Paper]

It's not illegal to be attracted to anyone or anything. I'm not sure what you were thinking.

They can't do anything to someone who has not committed a crime. If they tried, it would be a violation of their human rights.

hold on now - whose talking about imprisoning random folks without evidence?? surely not me...

i'm just stressing that it would be cool if research can find methods on helping those that suffer from this icky stuff by helping them find newer ways to control their desires and move on from it - it's unhealthy; it's like a mental illness/disorder, probably a paraphilia, imo

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

hold on now - whose talking about imprisoning random folks without evidence?? surely not me...

i'm just stressing that it would be cool if research can find methods on helping those that suffer from this icky stuff by helping them find newer ways to control their desires and move on from it - it's unhealthy; it's like a mental illness/disorder, probably a paraphilia, imo

There's no evidence that a person's attractions can be changed. They've tried that in numerous instances and it never works. In therapy, they usually focus on helping the patient not act on their desires instead of changing their attraction.

It is listed as a paraphilia. Technically, a paraphilia is a sexual desire or behavior that is highly atypical ("abnormal"). Lots of things are listed as paraphilias, including sadomasochism. But something is only a mental illness if it causes impairment in your daily functioning.

 

[Copy Paper]

yeah - i think helping them out with not acting on their desires is a good start (however, i disagree with doing stuff to change their attraction because that stuff reminds me of those evil "go from gay/lesbian to straight" camps) - and, i think it may be a mental illness/disorder for those select few that may be impaired in their daily functioning by such desires

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

yeah - i think helping them out with not acting on their desires is a good start (however, i disagree with doing stuff to change their attraction because that stuff reminds me of those evil "go from gay/lesbian to straight" camps) - and, i think it may be a mental illness/disorder for those select few that may be impaired in their daily functioning by such desires

Yes, exactly. You've earned your first frubal. Welcome to the board.

 

[Copy Paper]

Yes, exactly. You've earned your first frubal. Welcome to the board.

thanks for the welcome, but what is this "frubal"? i must use it in paperism for world domination!! :cigar: