Are transgender/transsexual people accepted in your religion?

[Liu]

After doing some thinking, it does make sense to me that the Supreme Being is more feminine, at least from human eyes. Sure, the Supreme Being would be genderless and beyond all attributes but I think we need to put a face on it in order to be able to approach Her in a devotional fashion.

Females bring life into the world, females can take life out of it (abortion and miscarriages), females motivate the male sex drive, mammals start off as more female and only take on male characteristics with the introduction of androgens later on, etc. To me, I'm just more comfortable and it makes more sense to me to visualize the Supreme Being as female. Kali is the ultimate representation of the Supreme Being to me.

As for males having to embrace their femininity, it is because the Feminine has been subjugated by males for millennia and a balance needs to be returned. It also has an element of breaking social taboos about gender variance which, imo, need to be broken. For a man to express his feminine side is still seen as a wrong thing in most of the world. This needs to be addressed. As the children of the Goddess and with the Goddess as the Ultimate Reality, we reflect that in ourselves. When I meditate upon Kali, there is a merging. You can't merge with a being without accepting them as yourself.

That's an interesting explanation, and it makes sense to me on a rational basis.

Still, I can relate to the divine better when I imagine it as either male, or a combination of both (e.g. in the shape of Baphomet, or as a basically genderless dragon). I also call it by the names of e.g. Tiamat, Discordia and Kālī, but I feel much more comfortable with calling it Satan.

I suppose my own feelings of gender dysphoria still hinder me quite a bit at relating to its female aspects.

 

[Sanzbir]

Hmmm. Mostly I'm just devil's advocating here, but:

Females bring life into the world,

Except for the New Mexico whiptail lizard, I think this is not wholly true. It'd be like saying "Hydrogen brings water into the world". It's only half of the equation. Man and woman together brings life. Again, unless you're a New Mexico whiptail, in which case just woman brings forth life.

females can take life out of it (abortion and miscarriages),

Miscarriages aren't a result of will, and men can perform abortions as well.

females motivate the male sex drive,

And males motivate the female sex drive. At least, the hetero- or bisexual ones. Two parts work as one.

mammals start off as more female and only take on male characteristics with the introduction of androgens later on, etc.

That is true.

To me, I'm just more comfortable and it makes more sense to me to visualize the Supreme Being as female. Kali is the ultimate representation of the Supreme Being to me.

That's fine.

As for males having to embrace their femininity, it is because the Feminine has been subjugated by males for millennia and a balance needs to be returned.

Hmmmm. It seems to me like you are saying that gender roles have caused subjegation... therefore this one specific set of gender roles ("feminine") should be embraced. I, personally, would favor a unity of gender, and a rejection of roles, rather than the embracing of a specific set.

It also has an element of breaking social taboos about gender variance which, imo, need to be broken. For a man to express his feminine side is still seen as a wrong thing in most of the world. This needs to be addressed.

See... I could understand this if it also required women to take on masculine roles. On the topic of men and women my own religion writes "A bird needs both wings to fly". Thus, I kind of think we can't get rid of gender roles or sexism by just focusing on one wing of the genders. It seems to me like only requiring men to express a feminine side would eliminate masculine gender roles, but would leave feminine gender roles in place. It seems logical to me that this would result in a society where men can do anything but women still have distinct roles, and I don't think that's your intended effect.

As the children of the Goddess and with the Goddess as the Ultimate Reality, we reflect that in ourselves. When I meditate upon Kali, there is a merging. You can't merge with a being without accepting them as yourself.

I suppose that makes some sense, but I'd think that visualizing an infinite as specifically one attribute, then it would somewhat limit the potential of merging. I would think that, if one accepted an infinite god as both masculine, feminine, and neither, one could accept the "masculine" and "feminine" aspects of one self when attempting such a meditative reflection.

Acknowledging an infinity as both masculine and feminine would allow one to accept the whole of one's self!! Rather than just the masculine or feminine qualities of that self.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Hmmm. Mostly I'm just devil's advocating here, but:



Except for the New Mexico whiptail lizard, I think this is not wholly true. It'd be like saying "Hydrogen brings water into the world". It's only half of the equation. Man and woman together brings life. Again, unless you're a New Mexico whiptail, in which case just woman brings forth life.



Miscarriages aren't a result of will, and men can perform abortions as well.



And males motivate the female sex drive. At least, the hetero- or bisexual ones. Two parts work as one.



That is true.



That's fine.



Hmmmm. It seems to me like you are saying that gender roles have caused subjegation... therefore this one specific set of gender roles ("feminine") should be embraced. I, personally, would favor a unity of gender, and a rejection of roles, rather than the embracing of a specific set.



See... I could understand this if it also required women to take on masculine roles. On the topic of men and women my own religion writes "A bird needs both wings to fly". Thus, I kind of think we can't get rid of gender roles or sexism by just focusing on one wing of the genders. It seems to me like only requiring men to express a feminine side would eliminate masculine gender roles, but would leave feminine gender roles in place. It seems logical to me that this would result in a society where men can do anything but women still have distinct roles, and I don't think that's your intended effect.



I suppose that makes some sense, but I'd think that visualizing an infinite as specifically one attribute, then it would somewhat limit the potential of merging. I would think that, if one accepted an infinite god as both masculine, feminine, and neither, one could accept the "masculine" and "feminine" aspects of one self when attempting such a meditative reflection.

Acknowledging an infinity as both masculine and feminine would allow one to accept the whole of one's self!! Rather than just the masculine or feminine qualities of that self.

I think you're reading too much into what I'm saying, taking it too literally. I didn't say anything about gender roles, for example. We're just going to have go agree to disagree.

 

[Sanzbir]

I think you're reading too much into what I'm saying, taking it too literally. I didn't say anything about gender roles, for example. We're just going to have go agree to disagree.

Now I'm genuinely curious: What is "masculinity" and "femininity" if not gender roles?? Do you view them as intrinsic, existing properties of men and women, or something like that??

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Now I'm genuinely curious: What is "masculinity" and "femininity" if not gender roles?? Do you view them as intrinsic, existing properties of men and women, or something like that??

It's mixture of the biological, the social, psychological and spiritual, imo.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

That's an interesting explanation, and it makes sense to me on a rational basis.

Still, I can relate to the divine better when I imagine it as either male, or a combination of both (e.g. in the shape of Baphomet, or as a basically genderless dragon). I also call it by the names of e.g. Tiamat, Discordia and Kālī, but I feel much more comfortable with calling it Satan.

I suppose my own feelings of gender dysphoria still hinder me quite a bit at relating to its female aspects.

I understand. Since I'm a trans man, too, I had my own issues with accepting whatever feminine aspect of me there is and relating to feminine notions of thr Divine. It takes work at times. Maybe you will eventually come to terms it or maybe you're just He-Man and don't need to.

I also worship very virile Gods such as Zeus and Pan. I like androgynous deities, too. I like to think of myself as well-rounded spiritually.

 

[Liu]

I understand. Since I'm a trans man, too, I had my own issues with accepting whatever feminine aspect of me there is and relating to feminine notions of thr Divine. It takes work at times. Maybe you will eventually come to terms it or maybe you're just He-Man and don't need to.

Lol, for that I'm really too much of a bookworm, and I'm not into that kind of hypermasculinity in any case.
Anyway, I have made some progress - in the past I couldn't stand "girly" colours like pink - now there are even pictures on my wall that have quite a lot of pink in them

It's not like everything associated with femininity would make me uncomfortable, not at all - but when it comes to spirituality I can't help but wonder why I relate to certain deities less or more than to others, and in some cases their gender seems to be a factor where I would have any reason to like a deity and yet somehow don't feel as much of a connection. I certainly hope to get over this.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Lol, for that I'm really too much of a bookworm, and I'm not into that kind of hypermasculinity in any case.
Anyway, I have made some progress - in the past I couldn't stand "girly" colours like pink - now there are even pictures on my wall that have quite a lot of pink in them

It's not like everything associated with femininity would make me uncomfortable, not at all - but when it comes to spirituality I can't help but wonder why I relate to certain deities less or more than to others, and in some cases their gender seems to be a factor where I would have any reason to like a deity and yet somehow don't feel as much of a connection. I certainly hope to get over this.

I know that, with me at least, things tend to calm down a but regarding dysphoria with time and as you progress in your transition. I used to have a ton of dysphoria but it's not as bad now. I know other trans people who have reported the same about themselves.