Are transgender/transsexual people accepted in your religion?

[lewisnotmiller]

I think that it goes against the principles of Luciferianism to not accept transgender individuals. Considering as well that it is an individualized religion, it wouldn't really be possible to somehow "excommunicate" people.

Conversely, I would also accept anti-trans people into my hypothetical group...

Errrr...I get that your group would not impose rules, but is it really possible to say it's against the principles of Luciferianism to not accept transgender individuals, but also welcome anti-trans people into a Luciferianism group?

 

[YmirGF]

What would you do if someone close to you found out that he/she is a transgender?

I understand that gender reassignment is quite big in Iran, but that is also likely due to the weird outdated ideas that Islam has about sexuality, clearly defined gender roles and prohibitions against homosexuality rather than a progressive trend. In some respects its an extreme antidote to being gay. (Here, I'm speaking about in Iran, not globally.)

 

[BilliardsBall]

Well? Why or why not?

They are in mine. My Goddess doesn't give a damn if you're LGBT or not. It's all the same to Her and She is the merging and destruction of all qualities and dualities, anyway. She is male, female, both and neither. For a man to be a Shakta, he must embrace his own feminine aspect in the first place, making male Shaktas somewhat gender variant in a fashion to begin with. (Which is fascinating and brings up interesting questions for me as a female to male transsexual.)

I'm also a Satanist and view Satan as either feminine or androgynous.

All persons including transgender and transsexual are accepted as Christians. Anyone may be born again, note the "whoever" of John 3:16

 

[Shadow Wolf]

so everything is permissible so long as society is comfortable with it.

Except in this case society is not comfortable with transgender people.

That doesn't mean that I am required to hate someone who does so. Certainly if its because of a mental illness, I'm required to love them. But that's a separate thing.

You didn't say hate in those words, but saying "I don't want to be around them or have my children around them" is an extremely hateful thing to say.
And what many, many psychologist who study the subject will say is that gender dysphoria itself isn't a mental disorder, but the depression, anxiety, and other issues that arise mostly from others (and not being transgender) do lead to mental illnesses. Once other people are taken out of the equation, not everything is perfect, but I'm hardly the only infertile woman out there. But, as for me, the real mental illness isn't having gender dysphoria, it was when I reached such an emotional low over having to be a guy that I lost the ability to care about my life and I would walk out of Walmart with hundreds of dollars worth of stuff (at a time) that I didn't pay for. But that was many years ago, and I am no longer that person.

I'm not sure whether I'd have the strength, self-knowledge and motivation to go through with my transition if I wasn't a Satanist, but through it I'm strengthened in my knowledge that it's the right thing for me to do.

Lucifer got me going down the path towards shedding the life that others want for me, and living my life as I truly am.

 

[columbus]

It's not difficult to resist bigotry.

I honestly don't think that this is true. I think it is nearly impossible to resist bigotry under certain circumstances.

I see bigotry as simply an emergent property of normal human instincts and mental function. Particularly our need to categorize and instinctive tribalism, and particularly concerning race and gender.

Occasionally I consider starting a thread "Racism is Natural". I don't think we can help being so, under many common circumstances. But I never seem to get quite ambitious enough on RF
Tom

 

[Tumah]

Except in this case society is not comfortable with transgender people.

Slowly, slowly.

You didn't say hate in those words, but saying "I don't want to be around them or have my children around them" is an extremely hateful thing to say.

That may be your perception and I'm sure its not pleasant to be told that someone or their religion doesn't approve of your lifestyle, but there was absolutely no malice in that statement. I have nothing against anyone like that whatsoever. I definitely feel more hatred towards you for making me have to reformat to black every time I reply to you, then I do towards any bodily changes you've made.

And what many, many psychologist who study the subject will say is that gender dysphoria itself isn't a mental disorder, but the depression, anxiety, and other issues that arise mostly from others (and not being transgender) do lead to mental illnesses. Once other people are taken out of the equation, not everything is perfect, but I'm hardly the only infertile woman out there. But, as for me, the real mental illness isn't having gender dysphoria, it was when I reached such an emotional low over having to be a guy that I lost the ability to care about my life and I would walk out of Walmart with hundreds of dollars worth of stuff (at a time) that I didn't pay for. But that was many years ago, and I am no longer that person.

Nevertheless.

 

[Deidre]

I honestly don't think that this is true. I think it is nearly impossible to resist bigotry under certain circumstances.

I see bigotry as simply an emergent property of normal human instincts and mental function. Particularly our need to categorize and instinctive tribalism, and particularly concerning race and gender.

Occasionally I consider starting a thread "Racism is Natural". I don't think we can help being so, under many common circumstances. But I never seem to get quite ambitious enough on RF
Tom

That would be an interesting thread. I have to think about what you and Luis are saying. I've never thought of bigotry as instinctive ...seems like a learned trait.

 

[columbus]

I've never thought of bigotry

I struggle with a gut level racism. Not so much now, as I have worked on it for many years. Recognizing that as a flaw in me, not them, has become habitual over the years. I wound up on the board of the NAACP while I was working on myself. But I grew up in a very white world. The mental image I formed, as a tyke, for the word "people" was white. Nobody taught me that, I just didn't have a meaningful interaction with anybody who wasn't until I was in my 20s.
Similarly, I have a gut level "Ew" response to gender bending, especially when males do it. It takes some discipline on my part to treat everyone to the standards I expect from myself. But I try to do so, and I am reasonably successful.
I think.
Tom

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That may be your perception and I'm sure its not pleasant to be told that someone or their religion doesn't approve of your lifestyle, but there was absolutely no malice in that statement.

You said you didn't want your children around me. That's something you say about tweakers, thieves, and child abusers. LBGT? It's just as bad as the US Fed saying pot is a schedule 1 while crystal is schedule 2. You don't want your kids around people you don't like and approve of. It's not like we're shooting up and planing to steal and rape your children.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Transgenderism is normally used as a synonym to transsexuality (and to transidentity). The terms, at least in scientific discourse, mean the same. So I'm not sure which aspect of it you are saying is not natural.

What I'm getting at is that it's not natural for humans to change sex. Which doesn't speak on any morality, it's just not something we can do. We require surgery for it to take place (although even then, I don't think it's 100% functional as it is with other species.)

Also, as I understand it, Loki not only gave birth to Sleipnir, but also to three of his other children.

Nah, Fenrir, Jormungandr, and Hel were birthed by Angraboda; Loki was the father.

But still, Loki is a pretty queer character, in many senses of the word.

Not really, he's just sly.

 

[DanielR]

That is fine. That is also unconnected to transsexuals.

how the hell is that fine? if a Christian posted the exact same statement you people would have torn him to shreds. ridiculous, as a gay man I feel offended

 

[LuisDantas]

how the hell is that fine? if a Christian posted the exact same statement you people would have torn him to shreds. ridiculous, as a gay man I feel offended

It is fine because it is unrelated. LGBT is not a matter of "transgression".

 

[InquisitiveScholar]

Short answer, yes.
Long answer, Zoroastrianism does not give a damn about your gender or sexual orientation because the focus of Zoroastrianism is about doing good in your life rather than focusing on what comes after. In that similar vein, Good Thoughts, Good Words, Good Deeds, ties into that.

 

[LukeS]

'

What would you do if someone close to you found out that he/she is a transgender?

Not sure, I know little very about it.

Maybe some of these disorders are time and culture specific? Like alien abduction too its a real phenomenon, but culture bound.

Apparently it has a long history. Transgender history - Wikipedia

If its a relatively free personal choice I would think its 'sinful', but if its forced by genetics or whatever I just don't know.

I would probably treat a Muslim differently, like there would be community pressures etc. Whether theyre just I don't know.

 

[LuisDantas]

I appreciate the honesty. Still, I can hardly be expected to sympathise with the stance.

 

[Poisonshady313]

You said you didn't want your children around me. That's something you say about tweakers, thieves, and child abusers.

To put it into perspective, certain Orthodox Jewish communities might say they wouldn't want their children around Christians. (Notice that you'll never see Hasidic children in a public school) It has nothing to do with hating anyone, and everything to do with being separate from ideas/people that are not conducive to Torah observance.

I buy meat at a kosher supermarket. I don't I hate the people who work for Oscar Mayer, or the people who work at the deli counter at the local supermarket... I buy meat at a kosher supermarket because I know it's kosher.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

I voted yes. I am what I've decided to call a "Christian alumnus". Now, Christianity has a very convoluted history with the idea. However, there are two verses I find illuminating and the ones I choose to prefer over all the phobic crap:

Matthew 19:12New International Version (NIV)

12 For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

In short, I believe Christianity is a stopped watch about the issue, but even a stopped watch is right at some point in the day.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

To put it into perspective, certain Orthodox Jewish communities might say they wouldn't want their children around Christians.

That's just as equally terrible. It is these foolish segregations and insisting that people be separated and walls built between groups is why we hate bigotry, discrimination, hatred, and especially among you Abrahamics, centuries upon centuries of blood shed and war.
Don't you think it's time to tear down the walls and start helping to repair the world and society instead of damaging it further?

 

[Etritonakin]

Well? Why or why not?

They are in mine. My Goddess doesn't give a damn if you're LGBT or not. It's all the same to Her and She is the merging and destruction of all qualities and dualities, anyway. She is male, female, both and neither. For a man to be a Shakta, he must embrace his own feminine aspect in the first place, making male Shaktas somewhat gender variant in a fashion to begin with. (Which is fascinating and brings up interesting questions for me as a female to male transsexual.)

I'm also a Satanist and view Satan as either feminine or androgynous.

I don't " have" a religion, I believe that God's religion is to keep the commandments, etc., and to love others.

The law is written for the originally-intended state of distinct human males and females.
Though I do believe that which is true of evolution and direct creative acts to both be parts of the whole of that which led to human life.... As the creation -of which we are a part -is no longer as originally intended -having been subject to our own actions, time and chance, a lack of maintenance, etc. -is no longer as originally intended, the law must be applied by the willing as it can be according to their situation.

A person who is truly not of one or the other sex exclusively -by no decision of their own -is simply in a particular state.

If such a person is of a mind to keep the commandments of God, then God would certainly accept them. They would be responsible for truthfully considering their own state and keeping the commandments and judgments under the law as they are able.

Ancient Israel had a system of judges which applied the law to specific situations as they arose -the principle is the same.

Not all gender or sexual issues have to do with a person's state, however, and where a person's will, decisions and actions are contrary to God's will and decisions, they would then be guilty of transgression of the law.

 

[DavidFirth]

Well? Why or why not?

They are in mine. My Goddess doesn't give a damn if you're LGBT or not. It's all the same to Her and She is the merging and destruction of all qualities and dualities, anyway. She is male, female, both and neither. For a man to be a Shakta, he must embrace his own feminine aspect in the first place, making male Shaktas somewhat gender variant in a fashion to begin with. (Which is fascinating and brings up interesting questions for me as a female to male transsexual.)

I'm also a Satanist and view Satan as either feminine or androgynous.

The people are accepted but sin is not accepted. Jesus ate with and loved sinners but He never condoned sin. His purpose is to turn us away from sin, definitely not to encourage people to continue in sin.