Are transgender/transsexual people accepted in your religion?

[Shadow Wolf]

It's always convenient that the resurrection stories typically don't involve immolation or beheading or something. It's almost always something that could, on the fringe of medical possibility, happen. If Jesus had come back post being drawn and quartered, THEN I'd be impressed.

Much more impressive, and much more painful. Western history though is filled with examples of people who the church/church-states put through far worse than what their Messiah went through. He was lashed, but not flayed. Crucified, but not utterly broken. If Vlad Dracul III had impaled him, by the time he returned to life from crucifixion he'd still be dying on a wooden pole.

 

[Rival]

Well sex between a man and a woman is more about biology then "mentality" correct? Men and women don't "decide" to have sex because procreation keeps the population buoyant, and is therefore intellectually justified do they? They do it because it feels good, and the biological urge is very strong (say it quietly but the same applies to religious people as well!). You are not opposed to heterosexual sex right? Or are you worried that we might not produce enough babies if too many people are gay? Under-population of the world is definitely not a problem at the moment. Bring on the gays and the asexuals I say!

I was talking about transsexualism there. Being gay is nature's means of curbing overpopulation. As well as tsunamis.

 

[The Holy Bottom Burp]

I was talking about transsexualism there. Being gay is nature's means of curbing overpopulation. As well as tsunamis.

That makes even less sense Rival, why would you "oppose" transsexual people? Forgetting the religious stuff, why on Earth would I care if the person next to me is transsexual? I might ask why would I care if my wife was transsexual unless children was a deal breaker? Even then, we could adopt, so happy days right? You haven't said anything that makes much sense so far.

 

[Rival]

That makes even less sense Rival, why would you "oppose" transsexual people? Forgetting the religious stuff, why on Earth would I care if the person next to me is transsexual? I might ask why would I care if my wife was transsexual unless children was a deal breaker? Even then, we could adopt, so happy days right? You haven't said anything that makes much sense so far.

I don't oppose them, I'm not against them. I was just making a statement, from my former atheistic POV, that I viewed it as not biologically normal and trying to turn a woman into a dude is not biologically fully possible. It's trying to treat a metal issue by altering the body. A man who transitions to a woman will never have a period, become pregnant, give birth, lactate or go through menopause. That's not me being against transsexuals, that's just a fact.

 

[Mister Silver]

I don't oppose them, I'm not against them. I was just making a statement, from my former atheistic POV, that I viewed it as not biologically normal and trying to turn a woman into a dude is not biologically fully possible. It's trying to treat a metal issue by altering the body. A man who transitions to a woman will never have a period, become pregnant, give birth, lactate or go through menopause. That's not me being against transsexuals, that's just a fact.

The problem is that you think it is a mental issue.

You know what was once thought of as a mental issue? Homosexuality.

Unlike religion, reality and psychology changes its views on a given situation due to evidence it has gathered from understanding something outside of fiction.

 

[Rival]

The problem is that you think it is a mental issue.

You know what was once thought of as a mental issue? Homosexuality.

Unlike religion, reality and psychology changes its views on a given situation due to evidence it has gathered from understanding something outside of fiction.

No no, you misunderstand. I mean, the person fully feels as if they are the opposite sex to what the body is and that is their experience. I can fully appreciate that. What I mean is, it's in the mind and the body cannot be changed to match the mind, no matter what. So the mental (mind related) part should really be addressed more than it is.

 

[Mister Silver]

No no, you misunderstand. I mean, the person fully feels as if they are the opposite sex to what the body is and that is their experience. I can fully appreciate that. What I mean is, it's in the mind and the body cannot be changed to match the mind, no matter what. So the mental (mind related) part should really be addressed more than it is.

Psychology has studied it enough to ensure that those wishing to go through a bodily transition are mandated to see a psychologist to ensure that their mental state is in proper order.

 

[The Holy Bottom Burp]

I don't oppose them, I'm not against them. I was just making a statement, from my former atheistic POV, that I viewed it as not biologically normal and trying to turn a woman into a dude is not biologically fully possible. It's trying to treat a metal issue by altering the body. A man who transitions to a woman will never have a period, become pregnant, give birth, lactate or go through menopause. That's not me being against transsexuals, that's just a fact.

Glad to hear you don't "oppose" them, and as I said in my previous post there is no reason why transsexual people cannot adopt. Your opening salvo was:

Just putting this out there, not seeking a debate, but atheists can be against transsexualism and other such things. It's not all based around religious beliefs. Socially conservative atheists are rare but they exist. I used to be one.

That sounds more than just pointing out a fact tbh, maybe it was just your wording. Medical technology is moving at a dizzying speed, it may be possible for a man to become a woman in every sense, and vice versa of course in the near future. I think I'd be more surprised if that didn't happen, so the debate is nullified then right?

 

[Rival]

That sounds more than just pointing out a fact tbh, maybe it was just your wording. Medical technology is moving at a dizzying speed, it may be possible for a man to become a woman in every sense, and vice versa of course in the near future. I think I'd be more surprised if that didn't happen, so the debate is nullified then right?

'May be'. In reality it's just a mutilated body.

 

[The Holy Bottom Burp]

'May be'. In reality it's just a mutilated body.

Right, just like accident victims or people with genetic disfigurements who have operations to correct them? Should we say no to those people who want their body "mutilated" as well?

 

[Rival]

Right, just like accident victims or people with genetic disfigurements who have operations to correct them? Should we say no to those people who want their body "mutilated" as well?

That's not the same. In the case of a transsexual, the body started out perfectly healthy and functional. It required nothing.

 

[The Holy Bottom Burp]

That's not the same. In the case of a transsexual, the body started out perfectly healthy and functional. It required nothing.

Wrong, in the case of someone with genetic disfigurement (which god in his love allows) without corrective surgery the person has to live with permanent disability or perhaps face an early grave.

 

[Rival]

Wrong, in the case of someone with genetic disfigurement (which god in his love allows) without corrective surgery the person has to live with permanent disability or perhaps face an early grave.

That person did not start out healthy.

 

[The Holy Bottom Burp]

That person did not start out healthy.

So your beef is that people who start out "healthy" should not have surgery to alter anything? There is a massive cosmetic surgery industry out there you know, I do hope you will be picketing your local plastic surgeon to voice your opposition!

 

[Rival]

So your beef is that people who start out "healthy" should not have surgery to alter anything? There is a massive cosmetic surgery industry out there you know, I do hope you will be picketing your local plastic surgeon to voice your opposition!

Yes, I don't agree with cosmetic surgery either.

 

[The Holy Bottom Burp]

Yes, I don't agree with cosmetic surgery either.

Right, so small beer than? I'd never recommend plastic surgery to anyone (but there again I'm an incredibly handsome man ) but if the only thing that will bring that person happiness and contentment is plastic surgery, fine I say. That is his or her choice, none of my business is it?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

A man who transitions to a woman will never have a period, become pregnant, give birth, lactate or go through menopause. That's not me being against transsexuals, that's just a fact.

And that sometimes happens to women. It doesn't make them less of a woman though.

What I mean is, it's in the mind and the body cannot be changed to match the mind, no matter what. So the mental (mind related) part should really be addressed more than it is.

They've tried addressing it mentally, and it went no where. But, what science has shown us is that transitioning improves the quality of life for those who have gender dysphoria. And, of course, improving a clients quality of life as much as possible is the goal of clinical psychology and psychiatry.

That's not the same. In the case of a transsexual, the body started out perfectly healthy and functional. It required nothing.

If the mind isn't healthy, there isn't a healthy or well functioning body to be had. Gender dysphoria has been best shown to be treated with physical/medical intervention. Treating it as a mental disorder really hasn't worked out, much how treating homosexuality as a mental disorder didn't work out (nor heterosexuality).

 

[Rival]

Right, so small beer than? I'd never recommend plastic surgery to anyone (but there again I'm an incredibly handsome man ) but if the only thing that will bring that person happiness and contentment is plastic surgery, fine I say. That is his or her choice, none of my business is it?

I just believe that beauty fades and one should strive for virtue instead. I guess I just think it's a bit shallow.

 

[Mister Silver]

I just believe that beauty fades and one should strive for virtue instead. I guess I just think it's a bit shallow.

Virtue is not all that great either. It makes the virtuous think they are better than those who are non-virtuous.

 

[The Holy Bottom Burp]

I just believe that beauty fades and one should strive for virtue instead. I guess I just think it's a bit shallow.

Pretty much as shallow as any opposition to it though? It takes all sorts, some people don't much care for "virtue"
(whatever that means) in life, they are never going to feel happiness or fulfillment from it. If surgery releases them into a happier realm who are we to say "no, you're doing it wrong"? Only a religionist would come out with something like that.