Are Tumours Organisms?

[Helvetios]

As promised, a thread stemming from a discussion in chat the other day between @MD, @lovesong, @SaintFrankenstein and possibly others.

I did some more reading and found out that, in fact, some scientists are reconsidering their approaches to cancer research and are beginning to treat tumours as organisms in various senses of the word. Tumours do have various characteristics in common with the definition of an organism, although they do not have the same lineage of things we would normally consider organisms. Will probably edit this later but here are a few of the resources I've been reading.

https://news.berkeley.edu/2011/07/26/are-cancers-newly-evolved-species/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2905377/
http://faculty.fmcc.suny.edu/mcdarby/Cancer-Evolution.htm

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yes. Why does it matter?

We were having an argument about it in the chat room last night. I was arguing that tumors aren't organisms.

 

[Helvetios]

I was largely absent from the conversation, but it got me thinking about the properties of 'standard' organisms not present in tumours. They may be genetically different from the host, but is that enough to make each of them a new species? Mutations and phenotypic changes can vary a lot within the tumour itself, and in all other organisms there is some sort of future implied. They each have an independent, unique evolutionary lineage regardless of their independence or current status as a parasite. Whereas I don't see that kind of sustainability for tumours. It may be helpful to think of them as mutagenic single-celled parasites but I still think there's something missing. Not sure what it is yet. Any ideas?

 

[MD]

I was largely absent from the conversation, but it got me thinking about the properties of 'standard' organisms not present in tumours. They may be genetically different from the host, but is that enough to make each of them a new species? Mutations and phenotypic changes can vary a lot within the tumour itself, and in all other organisms there is some sort of future implied. They each have an independent, unique evolutionary lineage regardless of their independence or current status as a parasite. Whereas I don't see that kind of sustainability for tumours. It may be helpful to think of them as mutagenic single-celled parasites but I still think there's something missing. Not sure what it is yet. Any ideas?

First of all we have to define what a tumor is. Are we talking about benign or malignant growths?

Tumors are basically a cell within the collective who tell the rest of the body to eff off and want to create their own species. They react to stimuli and they grow. They fall within most of the definition of an organism, benign and slow growing malignant tumors also do maintain homeostasis. However many bacteria and fungi that invade our bodies don't maintain homeostasis, yet they're classified as organisms. Slow growing tumors could also be classified as maintaining homeostasis, as some have been known to take decades before they metastasize. Benign tumors definitely do maintain homeostasis until they become malignant.

I'm not a biologist, but my argument was that things change and definitions shouldn't be so rigid. Plus I was trying to annoy Frank .

 

[Terese]

Not this again...

I'm not a biologist, but my argument was that things change and definitions shouldn't be so rigid. Plus I was trying to annoy Frank .

Aaaaand banned.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Plus I was trying to annoy Frank .

You ***. Lol. I couldn't for the life of me figure out what the point of that was. Figures that you were trolling.

 

[DawudTalut]

....... some scientists are reconsidering their approaches to cancer research and are beginning to treat tumours as organisms in various senses of the word........

Peace be on all healthy and all patients.
Useful appraoch too:
anti cancer diet.
http://www.webmd.com/diet/expert-qa-anti-cancer-diet-karen-collins

 

[Flankerl]

Tumors are basically a cell within the collective who tell the rest of the body to eff off and want to create their own species.

No not even by a long shot. Cells that gon't get the memo of what they are supposed to do end up as cancer cells.

There is not a single occurence of cancer that is like another, they are all distinct because their abnormal cell growth is what it is, abnormal and uncontrolled by anything.

 

[Father Heathen]

Tumors are your body's own cells gone awry, so no.

 

[Thief]

Tumors are your body's own cells gone awry, so no.

and the word is ....protoplast....
I think I got that right

it is a body cell lacking the instruction to become a specialized type
it has your dna .......so your immune system lets it be
it lacks sufficient info to form the proper use

unfortunately it will draw blood and form circulation to support itself
just like any part of your body, trying to heal

and for lack of proper form it will give nothing back

if it shows on your skin.....it's not really your skin
if it shows in your gut....it will fail to perform as your gut
etc....etc.....etc.....

some speculate, the extra molecules at the trailing end of our genes are used to fill in the blanks
as we get older the trailing extra are reduced in number
we use the extra each time the cells reproduce

without the extra molecules to fill in the empty spaces the new cells revert

the aging process takes over

 

[Thief]

there is also speculation .......our bodies are so exposed to new man-made chemistry.....
our cell reproduction is faulted for the 'pollution'

 

[Quintessence]

Tumors are your body's own cells gone awry, so no.

Pretty much this. If we start classifying tumors as an organism, then you have to develop a taxonomy for them. Species names. Things like that. Tumors are, quite clearly, not their own species of organism.