Are Vegans better for the environment than meat eaters?

[Rick O'Shez]

You do realise that lots of animals are killed to grow vegies? Lots of animals are killed when we clear forrest to plant carrots.

I think that's a straw-man argument. It's true that growing grain ( whatever ) results in the death of lots of small creatures, the point is that you need to grow a lot more grain ( and kill a lot more small creatures ) if you go down the route of feeding the grain to animals and then eating the animals.

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

True. It is also true that many vegetables are excellent sources of protein.

As are protein shakes and tuna. In fact, most vegetables offer little nutrients, while mercury-laden tuna in a tuna salad offers far more nutrients and much more protein.

There is hardly any need to resort to animal products for proteins.

Mostly true, IMO. The only reason to rely on animal products is mostly if not all a matter of taste. However, given the absolute cruelty, brutality, and the most violent vicious torturous deaths that encapsulate that which is nature ("red in tooth and claw"), what can anybody whose respect for and of nature proffer that remotely resembles anything other than vicious death and base brutality?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I have no doubt that veganism and vegetarianism are better for the environment. I've also noticed from personal experience that vegetarians tend to be healthier than meat-eaters.

 

[McBell]

My first thought is:

How do you measure and gather the pertinent info?​

My second thought:

how do you discern what info is and what info is not pertinent?​

Perhaps someone would like to address these two points?

 

[ratikala]

Hmmm
....

I knew that I shouldnt read this thread !!!

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Most of the vegetarians, and vegans, that I know - are always sick, thin and sickly looking, and they seem to have brain function problems.

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So I have a small brain !!! ......my grandmother was right best things come in small packages

the only thing I can say to this is I dont care how large the brain is , ..what is important is a compassionate heart !

 

[Chakra]

As are protein shakes and tuna. In fact, most vegetables offer little nutrients, while mercury-laden tuna in a tuna salad offers far more nutrients and much more protein.

That's not true. Vegetables and fruits contain some of the best sources of vitamins and nutrients.

 

[Jainarayan]

we can increase the production of milk and cheese which are rich in proteins and can substitute meat.

By increasing the factory farming of dairy cattle?

 

[ratikala]

Ok , ...now I will endeavour to make my small brain be serious for a moment , ....

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Most of the vegetarians, and vegans, that I know - are always sick, thin and sickly looking, and they seem to have brain function problems.

my parents are both meat eaters and I was born very sickly , I suffered Asthma , Exzema and numerous alergies, .....I ate meat upto age 16 then became steadily more vegetarian as I grew older , I still ate eggs and fish as my doctor said that I must because of my skin conditions , ...but by my mid twenties I had gone through many periods of egnoring his advice and as I hated eggs anyway I slowly gave up all eggs and fish , and the more I got into meditation the more I ralised that other foods also disturb the system so I gave up onions mushrooms and Garlic and use of very heavy spices , .....I just got healthier and healthier , .....although I still suffered some alergies and Exzema , ....eventualy feeling totaly disgusted with the dairy industry I decided to go vegan , ....after three months I began to realise that my breathing was the best it had ever been , ....I wasnt alergic to peoples cats and dogs !.....Before I couldnt stay in a house with cat or dog for long sometimes as little as 10 mins before I would have to leave as they brought me out in either breathing dificultirs and or alergic reactions ....

but on a vegan diet I just got better and better , ...no alaegies , no hayfever , no asthma , no exzema , ......

The brain needs B12 and Omega-3 Fats.The best sources are meat, eggs, fish, etc.

I am not going in to all the sources of B12 , ...there are many

Here are a couple of articles.

Vegetarians have smaller brains -- Health & Wellness -- Sott.net

Meat Is Brain Food - NYTimes.com

5 Brain Nutrients Found Only in Meat, Fish and Eggs (NOT Plants)

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and what do these meat eaters do with these huge brains ?

do we even need enlarged brains ?

does it make us better people ?

are large brained people more or less agressive ?

I have to ask this because other findings do support the notion that meat eating changes the character of the person making them more short tempered and agressive , ...

then there are studies that prove that the excessive consumption of meat and dairy that is now comonly eaten actualy shortens lives , ....

I have been vegan now for over 10 years ...and have never felt better

P.S , .....and yes it is better for the enviroment and if we all ate less meat it is a known fact that there would be more food to go around .



jai ho , ..to all vegetarians and vegans and pagans who eat moderatly and thoughtfully , ....

with much love from your small brianed sister

 

[Estro Felino]

By increasing the factory farming of dairy cattle?

of course not. Cows must be raised in open fields, and we must invest in their health and in their care.I'm against any form of factory farming.

we Italians are the best at husbandry; for us, the dignity of farm animals is sacred. Our firms like Coop, Amadori and Barilla won the first prize at the European Good Farm Animal Welfare Awards

Paris Raises a Glass to Winners of the European Good Farm Animal Welfare Awards

 

[Jainarayan]

of course not. Cows must be raised in open fields, and we must invest in their health and in their care.I'm against any form of factory farming.

we Italians are the best at husbandry; for us, the dignity of farm animals is sacred. Our firms like Coop, Amadori and Barilla won the first prize at the European Good Farm Animal Awards

Paris Raises a Glass to Winners of the European Good Farm Animal Welfare Awards

And what happens to the male calves? And where is all this pastureland for dairy cattle going to come from, when it's being cleared to plant vegetables? I'd also wager that the dairy production of all of Europe doesn't come anywhere near that of the US.

 

[Ingledsva]

Ok , ...now I will endeavour to make my small brain be serious for a moment , ....



my parents are both meat eaters and I was born very sickly , I suffered Asthma , Exzema and numerous alergies, .....I ate meat upto age 16 then became steadily more vegetarian as I grew older , I still ate eggs and fish as my doctor said that I must because of my skin conditions , ...but by my mid twenties I had gone through many periods of egnoring his advice and as I hated eggs anyway I slowly gave up all eggs and fish , and the more I got into meditation the more I ralised that other foods also disturb the system so I gave up onions mushrooms and Garlic and use of very heavy spices , .....I just got healthier and healthier , .....although I still suffered some alergies and Exzema , ....eventualy feeling totaly disgusted with the dairy industry I decided to go vegan , ....after three months I began to realise that my breathing was the best it had ever been , ....I wasnt alergic to peoples cats and dogs !.....Before I couldnt stay in a house with cat or dog for long sometimes as little as 10 mins before I would have to leave as they brought me out in either breathing dificultirs and or alergic reactions ....

but on a vegan diet I just got better and better , ...no alaegies , no hayfever , no asthma , no exzema , ......


I am not going in to all the sources of B12 , ...there are many


and what do these meat eaters do with these huge brains ?

do we even need enlarged brains ?

does it make us better people ?

are large brained people more or less agressive ?

I have to ask this because other findings do support the notion that meat eating changes the character of the person making them more short tempered and agressive , ...

then there are studies that prove that the excessive consumption of meat and dairy that is now comonly eaten actualy shortens lives , ....

I have been vegan now for over 10 years ...and have never felt better

P.S , .....and yes it is better for the enviroment and if we all ate less meat it is a known fact that there would be more food to go around .



jai ho , ..to all vegetarians and vegans and pagans who eat moderatly and thoughtfully , ....

with much love from your small brianed sister

First - it was a study that found smaller brains in long term vegetarians.

The fact that you got better after stopping certain foods - probably means you were allergic to them.

As to ALL the vegetarians I know being sickly looking, sick more often, and having brain problems - memory, etc. That is a fact.

I've actually wondered about this, and I think - HERE - in ALASKA - this is because we need far more of these fat foods. The natives here eat very high fat diets to preserve the brain and organs in very cold weather. They eat seal, and blubber, make "ice cream" out of berries and seal or fish oil, etc.

I actually think vegetarians in cold weather areas - are literally harming their brains.

EDIT - Forgot to add, - I have a condition that requires a higher fat content for the brain, and I have a young relative that is autistic. The autism diet is also high fat for brain function.

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[Jainarayan]

EDIT - Forgot to add, - I have a condition that requires a higher fat content for the brain, and I have a young relative that is autistic. The autism diet is also high fat for brain function.

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Ketogenic diets, 65% fat, 35% protein, 5% carb also control epilepsy. Vegetarian diets are also typically high in carbohydrates, not a good thing for diabetics, pre-diabetics and insulin resistant people.

 

[Jainarayan]

I submit that if someone wants to be vegetarian, or carnivorous, omnivorous or wants to eat a diet of cow dung, it's their right to do it. I just grow tired of the "vegetarian is so much better spiritually and morally and ethically and better for the environment drivel". No one way is better than another because no one has all the variables or all the answers. Moreover, I'd like to see just one of these people give up their leather belts or wallets or boots. I'd like an answer as to when it becomes not OK to use any animal products... that is, is it OK to use a leather wallet but not eat a burger? Is it OK to use milk from a factory farm where the males calves are sold off for veal, and the cows are made into pet food when they can't produce milk anymore? Using that milk is really morally and ethically upstanding. Riiiight.

 

[Ingledsva]

Ketogenic diets, 65% fat, 35% protein, 5% carb also control epilepsy. Vegetarian diets are also typically high in carbohydrates, not a good thing for diabetics, pre-diabetics and insulin resistant people.

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Yep, and a lot of other diseases, and brain problems.

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[Chakra]

I submit that if someone wants to be vegetarian, or carnivorous, omnivorous or wants to eat a diet of cow dung, it's their right to do it. I just grow tired of the "vegetarian is so much better spiritually and morally and ethically and better for the environment drivel". No one way is better than another because no one has all the variables or all the answers. Moreover, I'd like to see just one of these people give up their leather belts or wallets or boots. I'd like an answer as to when it becomes not OK to use any animal products... that is, is it OK to use a leather wallet but not eat a burger? Is it OK to use milk from a factory farm where the males calves are sold off for veal, and the cows are made into pet food when they can't produce milk anymore? Using that milk is really morally and ethically upstanding. Riiiight.

Most (if not all) vegans DO avoid leather material and milk and anything that could have make a living being suffer (clothing too). Plus, most vegans were not raised vegan, but were meat-eaters before they transitioned to veganism. Hence, they probably didn't care about animals before and thus bought leather items. Now that they are vegan, you may as well hold on to the leather material instead of throwing it out.

Please, just tell me, is it going to kill you if you stop eating meat? What issues do you have with a vegetarian diet that makes you not become a vegetarian/vegan?

 

[Chakra]

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Yep, and a lot of other diseases, and brain problems.

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Many meat eaters that I know have cancer or a heart disease. Vegetarianism doesn't cause any diseases. In most cases, it is the person's fault if they are malnutrition-ed or suffering from a disease.

 

[Ingledsva]

Most (if not all) vegans DO avoid leather material and milk and anything that could have make a living being suffer (clothing too). Plus, most vegans were not raised vegan, but were meat-eaters before they transitioned to veganism. Hence, they probably didn't care about animals before and thus bought leather items. Now that they are vegan, you may as well hold on to the leather material instead of throwing it out.

Please, just tell me, is it doing to kill you if you stop eating meat? What issues do you have with a vegetarian diet that makes you not become a vegetarian/vegan?

I'm a hunter, gatherer, fisherwoman, etc. I eat the fish, shrimp, crab, clams and muscles, deer, moose, elk, etc., that I catch. As well as the kelp, seaweed, berries, wild veggies, spruce tips, wild Hudson Bay tea, etc., that I gather.

I also have a medical condition that is helped by a high protein and fat, low carb - diet.

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[Chakra]

I'm a hunter, gatherer, fisherwoman, etc. I eat the fish, shrimp, crab, clams and muscles, deer, moose, elk, etc., that I catch. As well as the kelp, seaweed, berries, wild veggies, spruce tips, wild Hudson Bay tea, etc., that I gather.

I also have a medical condition that is helped by a high protein and fat, low carb - diet.

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You like in Alaska, from what it seems like it. I suppose in those cold condition meat offers a easy source for food. I'm not going to argue against that.

But human beings aren't meant to live in such cold conditions. We were born and nurtured near the tropics, the origins of humanity. And that is where we thrive, not in Alaska or Siberia. And in the places like the the tropics, there is absolutely no need to eat meat for nutrition IMHO.

 

[metis]

First - it was a study that found smaller brains in long term vegetarians.

The fact that you got better after stopping certain foods - probably means you were allergic to them.

As to ALL the vegetarians I know being sickly looking, sick more often, and having brain problems - memory, etc. That is a fact.

I've actually wondered about this, and I think - HERE - in ALASKA - this is because we need far more of these fat foods. The natives here eat very high fat diets to preserve the brain and organs in very cold weather. They eat seal, and blubber, make "ice cream" out of berries and seal or fish oil, etc.

I actually think vegetarians in cold weather areas - are literally harming their brains.

EDIT - Forgot to add, - I have a condition that requires a higher fat content for the brain, and I have a young relative that is autistic. The autism diet is also high fat for brain function.

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I think there are a great many Hindus and Buddhists that would disagree with you, and I doubt very much that they're mostly "sickly" and have "brain problems".

 

[Ingledsva]

You like in Alaska, from what it seems like it. I suppose in those cold condition meat offers a easy source for food. I'm not going to argue against that.

But human beings aren't meant to live in such cold conditions. We were born and nurtured near the tropics, the beginning of humanity. And there is where we thrive, not in Alaska or Siberia. And in the places like the the tropics, there is absolutely no need to eat meat for nutrition IMHO.

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Humans are Omnivores. We evolved the system and teeth to eat both meat and veggies.


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