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Are Women Realistic Enough to Read Romance Novels?

Poeticus

| abhyAvartin |
Wuthering Heights is one of my favorite books of all time. Stop picking on it, por favor.

Could it be that you're talking about McDonalds and I'm thinking of a restaurant meal?

Sunstone's probably thinking of one of those kiosks at a mall - that's probably romance to him, while you and I are probably thinking of expensive, expensive restaurants in St. Tropez or those five-star places in Lichtenstein. We're classy.
 
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MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
Let's put it that way, many sectors of society have an escapist literature. Many male sectors have their own versions of Romantic novels, where the men are masculine, experienced, successful, and full of heroism.
There are so much fiction out there which can be branded escapism, sure I'd agree that some of it is more petty, but really as long as the reader is conscious about the difference between fiction and reality it doesn't have to be harmful.
For example I love reading Neil Gaiman, I love the background and setting for his stories, especially when he injects world mythology to the narrative. The worlds he create are mysterious and sensual, but I also close the book at some point and go back to real life. Where there are no supernatural beings and there is less mystery.

Likewise, as long as Romance novels don't enforce false ideals over men, false expectations from women, and the thought that all responsibility for a great sex life, and a great relationship fall solely on men and their (apparently) abundance of confidence, then let everyone read what turns them on.
I think it's better to have many genres and niches, I'd hate it if some of the literature I read turns mainstream.

I have to agree with Dan. Romance novels IMO offer up the heterosexual woman the male as a prop in her romantic fantasy, and that it plays out as a quasi-rape-fantasy story as well (he is so consumed with love for her that he must do anything to have her). At least that's what I got when I read them. It's also an escapist fantasy where a woman is the protagonist, and it's her journey that is being explored instead of a man's journey through life and love that is being presented.

BTW, I found Gone with the Wind to be a romance novel, as well, with a lengthy and drawn out rape fantasy where Rhett is the prop and Scarlett is the instigator of being so desirable and unaccessible. But, what I also found to be a unique and delightful take (which helped me to connect to the characters and the story), was that that the characters were deeply flawed in a tumultuous and extremely difficult time in U.S. history. I found Scarletts story from constant rises and falls to be more believable than simple worries of whether or not somebody would like her. Multiple marriages, death of a spouse, death of a child, victimized by rape by her husband (which in the fantasy shows her feeling guilty that she enjoyed it), war, economic ruin, hunger and poverty, and then finally after suddenly seeing what was most important to her all along....her love for Rhett....he has given up and walks away.

I find some folks feeling a certain hostility toward these fantasy novels and porn and 50 Shades of Grey and romantic comedies and pop culture and pop music, and sometimes I wonder just how much we don't recognize how escapism is prevalent to all of us, but that it is only our particular taste of escapist fantasy that determines the worth. We'd like to think our own brand of escapism is either more fun, has more intelligence, or is more evolved, but in the end, the vast majority of us don't want to face the reality that one day we're going to die, our loved ones are going to die, our children are going to die, and the world will end...and there's nothing we can do about that.

It's fantasy. Just have fun with it. Digest it a bit and understand what makes it intriguing to the population that makes it a thriving industry. I have my opinion that porn speaks to us about our views on sex. Romance novels offer something that speaks to us about our views on romance. I suggest for people to pay attention and don't simply dismiss stuff like this with a wave of the hand.

But, what do I know? :shrug:
 

Poeticus

| abhyAvartin |
Who's picking on it?

Every single one of you. :sad4:

MysticSang'Ha said:
I find some folks feeling a certain hostility toward these fantasy novels and porn and 50 Shades of Grey...

Twilight and 50 Shades of Grey should be banned for high crimes against literature and for high crimes against decent young women-folk that were (falsely) swooned by their horrid plot lines and outrageous anti-womanism. The domestic abuse involved in those series makes Heathcliff look like cat's play and pudding. Those books are vile.
 
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Wherenextcolumbus

Well-Known Member
मैत्रावरुणिः;3467031 said:
:D It's awesome, isn't it!? O Heathcliff! You'z a bad sonova*****!

Yes I love it for the reasons in my posts above.
 

Poeticus

| abhyAvartin |
What!? No no no, the novel is about race and class and criticising manhood, it is about how love between a man and woman can crumble because of social expectations, privilege and poverty. It is also about the abused becoming the abuser. Healthcliff becomes a monster, a monster created by other men, and social conventions of masculinity. That's not romantic!
To call it a romantic novel is to undermine all that Bronte was trying to say in my opinion.

But, you have to attest that some of the quotes attributed to Heathcliff will make any girl swoon. I saw the novel as dark-romance. I think Bronte was getting 'freaky wit' it'. She probably had a pleasurable time writing about Heathcliff coming back rich and taking his long-awaited vengeance upon those that mistreated him. I haven't read the book in a long time. You have convinced me to go buy another copy. The dark and tall Gypsy with his gorgeous face made the lady go cray-cray. I need to study those one-liners again.
 

Wherenextcolumbus

Well-Known Member
मैत्रावरुणिः;3467044 said:
But, you have to attest that some of the quotes attributed to Heathcliff will make any girl swoon. I saw the novel as dark-romance. I think Bronte was getting 'freaky wit' it'. She probably had a pleasurable time writing about Heathcliff coming back rich and taking his long-awaited vengeance upon those that mistreated him. I haven't read the book in a long time. You have convinced me to go buy another copy. The dark and tall Gypsy with his gorgeous face made the lady go cray-cray. I need to study those one-liners again.

I think that is a shallow interpretation of Heathcliff to be honest.
 

Poeticus

| abhyAvartin |
I think that is a shallow interpretation of Heathcliff to be honest.

Of course it is. I was concentrating on his looks and his pick up lines. I didn't factor in the racism he experienced, the mistreatment from those he thought loved him, how he changed and took it all out on his new wife and son, and all that other jazz on purpose. Heathcliff is quite the anti-romantic. He is also a G' and a boss.
 

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
मैत्रावरुणिः;3467016 said:
Twilight and 50 Shades of Grey should be banned for high crimes against literature and for high crimes against decent young women-folk that were (falsely) swooned by their horrid plot lines and outrageous anti-womanism. The domestic abuse involved in those series makes Heathcliff look like cat's play and pudding. Those books are vile.

ROFL

Funny how fantasy reveals so much about us, isn't it? Those aren't all how-to books. They're stories. And stories help us discover our own personal aesthetics.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic Bully ☿
Premium Member
To address the OP: I would speculate that there might be a strong correlation between reading romance novels after puberty and playing with dolls before puberty..

To tell someone that finding a correlation between having played with dolls and later on reading romance novels might logically call into question any significance to finding a correlation between harboring unrealistic expectations of men and being a heavy reader of romance novels is a good rhetorical trick if you can pull it off.
I noticed a similarity in your question of whether reading romance romance novels gives women an unrealistic expectation of men with a recent claim that Barbie dolls give women an unrealistic expectation of body image/beauty. After making this connection, I realized that romance novels are like the "make believe" stories girls might act out with their dolls, only without the dolls.

The larger question would then be: What role does make-believe play in shaping our views and expectations?
 

Wherenextcolumbus

Well-Known Member
ROFL

Funny how fantasy reveals so much about us, isn't it? Those aren't all how-to books. They're stories. And stories help us discover our own personal aesthetics.

Someone told me how her friend is literally obsessed with 50 shades of grey, that she wouldn't even see her boyfriend so she could stay home and read the books and she gave a guy her number because she thought he was the real life Christian Grey. Oh dear
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Whether fantasy is mostly beneficial, as Mystic and Dan both seem to be asserting in the case of romance novels, or whether fantasy is largely problematic, as many people assert in the case of men forming unrealistic expectations of women from viewing porn, seems to be a good question. Any opinions?
 

Poeticus

| abhyAvartin |
Whether fantasy is mostly beneficial, as Mystic and Dan both seem to be asserting in the case of romance novels, or whether fantasy is largely problematic, as many people assert in the case of men forming unrealistic expectations of women from viewing porn, seems to be a good question. Any opinions?

Thank you for asking for my opinion and my thoughts.

I believe that certain men do expect something more in bed if they tend to watch a lot of porn. But, I also believe that men are not the only ones that watch porn. Many women also watch a lot of porn; and, the type or variety of porn they watch will differ from woman to woman just as it does from man to man.

So, certain women that watch those cray-cray types of porn will probably desire some of those cray-cray things in bed.

The biggest mistake with asserting that men wishing for women to act like a certain way in bed because of what they see women doing in the porn they watch is the lack of mentioning of what women that do watch similar types of porn wish from the men they bed.
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
Whether fantasy is mostly beneficial, as Mystic and Dan both seem to be asserting in the case of romance novels, or whether fantasy is largely problematic, as many people assert in the case of men forming unrealistic expectations of women from viewing porn, seems to be a good question. Any opinions?
Yeah men and womens expectations are too high. Sure men all deserve to date nothing but supermodels and women deserve their knights in shining armor but then we all woke up.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
During my life, I've been told by at least several women that, when they were younger, they had formed unrealistic expectations of men in general that directly lead them into marriages which were miserable and failed.

But -- so far as I can recall now -- not a single one of the women has ever said to me that romance novels were anything more than a contributing cause of her unrealistic expectations of men. The cause they've almost always pinpointed for me was their religion.

Typically, I've been told by someone that she was raised within her church to fully expect that a "white knight" -- a perfect Christian man -- would someday discover her, then marry her, and make her happy for life. Her part in all that was to keep herself virginal until her marriage, learn domestic arts in prep for her marriage, and be properly submissive to her husband once married.

I only can recall one or perhaps two of the several women who've told me such stories ever saying she read romance novels and was influenced by them.

Moreover, I've never been told by anyone, so far as I know, that she married the wrong man because of her being influenced by romance novels.

To sum, I'm pretty sure unrealistic expectations of men can harm or mess up the person who harbors them. But I think it's up in the air how large of a cause of unrealistic expectations romance novels might be.
 

Poeticus

| abhyAvartin |
मैत्रावरुणिः;3467426 said:
Thank you for asking for my opinion and my thoughts.

I believe that certain men do expect something more in bed if they tend to watch a lot of porn. But, I also believe that men are not the only ones that watch porn. Many women also watch a lot of porn; and, the type or variety of porn they watch will differ from woman to woman just as it does from man to man.

So, certain women that watch those cray-cray types of porn will probably desire some of those cray-cray things in bed.

The biggest mistake with asserting that men wishing for women to act like a certain way in bed because of what they see women doing in the porn they watch is the lack of mentioning of what women that do watch similar types of porn wish from the men they bed.

Any thoughts, Sunstone?
 
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