Are you a born sinner? Is anyone?

[Jimmy]

I do not believe anyone was born a sinner. The Bible does not even support that. If everything that God made was good, that would include humans.

Genesis 1

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

I do not believe there was ever an original sin that came upon humanity because Adam and Eve ate an apple off a tree. I believe the whole story is fiction an d that original sin is the biggest lie ever perpetrated upon humanity. Jesus knew nothing about original sin, it was a Christian doctrine put in place to make people believe they needed Jesus if they wanted to be saved. Jesus was thus used as a pawn in the Christian game.

I believe humans are born good but we have two natures, a lower selfish nature and a higher spiritual nature, and we have free will to choose between them. Jesus came to free us from our lower selfish nature with His teachings and that is what Jesus did for us, how we were saved. Jesus taught us to deny self and He sacrificed Himself as a symbol of self-denial, not to remove an original sin that never even existed.

If you believe the whole story is fiction then he ain’t no pawn lol

 

[Trailblazer]

Through sin, death came into Creation.
Yes, you are born into sin, even if you are a baby and still did not sin.
Your human body is one of corruption and death.
It was sin that changed Adam and Eve's bodies from being immortal, to the one we hace now, a mortal body.
Every second that ticks away, we age, and cells in our bodies dies.
We are nothing than living corpses.
Unlike the bodies which was occupied by Adam and Eve that did not age before they sinned.
and this was why Satan deceived them into sinning against God.
To remove God's friend He created for Him because no corruption can be in the presence of His Glory.
This was why Jesus came to be made the sinoffering of us all, to have His blood cover our Sinfull nature just as the High Priest of ancient times had to sacrifice and cover the sins of Israel with Blood.
There is a special atribute about Blood in the face of God.
Blood covers the corrupted bodies we have to protect us from being destroyed in His presence.

Think about this,
Jesus was born as a human, therefore in a corrupt body like us, and He aged like us, and He died like us.
however, he rose from the dead after his blood was spilled, and had a body with no blood, for he told Thomas, He was not a ghost, for a ghost do not have flesh and bone.
Jesus was also very clear when he said, no flesh and blood will enter heaven.

therefore, Adam and Eve were clothed in a bright covering of light, but they lost their immortality when they sinned, and lost this light, which was replaced by blood, but they now had a body of flesh, bone and blood.
Jesus was killed with the same body of Bone, flesh and blood, but He changed into an immortal body of Flesh and bone only, and the blood remained here on earth. he again obtained the light which Adam and Eve were clothed with.

Yes, I was born in sin, because of my corrupt body, even though I still did not commit any sin.

This is the gospel, that Jesus came to change our sinfull nature, eg bodies, to be able to live forever.
It is up to us to change our sinfull mind. That is our choice.

All these are Christian doctrines based upon a misinterpretation of the Bible and reading into the Bible what is not even there...

Nowhere in the Bible does it say we would have lived forever if Adam and Eve had not eaten the apple.
This is all man-made theology.
Humans were created as mortal beings by God, we were biologically programmed to die.
Humans existed long before Adam and Eve, they have existed for about 200,000 years and they lived and died.

You are free to believe whatever you want to but so am I and I will do what I can to rescue innocent people from what I believe are false Christian doctrines.

 

[Trailblazer]

If you believe the whole story is fiction then he ain’t no pawn lol

But he has been used as a pawn by Christianity, and that is the real sin.

 

[Jimmy]

All these are Christian doctrines based upon a misinterpretation of the Bible and reading into the Bible what is not even there...

Nowhere in the Bible does it say we would have lived forever if Adam and Eve had not eaten the apple.
This is all man-made theology.
Humans were created as mortal beings by God, we were biologically programmed to die.
Humans existed long before Adam and Eve, they have existed for about 200,000 years and they lived and died.

You are free to believe whatever you want to but so am I and I will do what I can to rescue innocent people from what I believe are false Christian doctrines.

People will do all I can do call people does not believe what are you doing

But he has been used as a pawn by Christianity, and that is the real sin.

Lol
People are wiser than u think

 

[Trailblazer]

Lol
People are wiser than u think

Some are, some aren't.

 

[Jimmy]

Jesus’ life symbolizes so much more than what’s discussed here in church at home or anywhere for that matter.

 

[Trailblazer]

Jesus’ life symbolizes so much more than what’s discussed here in church at home or anywhere for that matter.

Indeed, and I never knew what His life and death symbolized until I became a Baha'i.

Question.—In verse 22 of chapter 15 of 1 Corinthians it is written: “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.” What is the meaning of these words?

29: EXPLANATION OF VERSE TWENTY-TWO, CHAPTER FIFTEEN, OF THE FIRST EPISTLE OF ST. PAUL TO THE CORINTHIANS

 

[stvdv]

Its said we are all born sinners but yet jesus died for all of man's sins... past, present and future....so how are we born sinners if jesus already died to wash away our present and future sins?

This obviously has always been a wrong concept for me, hence Jesus tried to take it away; still many Christians believe it

My Master told us that the biggest 'sin' is to believe "I am a sinner". More clear than that you can't get it I think.

 

[blü 2]

Its said we are all born sinners but yet jesus died for all of man's sins... past, present and future....so how are we born sinners if jesus already died to wash away our present and future sins?

Born sinner?

No, I had to learn all that stuff.

 

[stvdv]

Born sinner?

No, I had to learn all that stuff.

The lucky ones manage to 'unlearn' it after having been brainwashed with it

 

[blü 2]

Its said we are all born sinners but yet jesus died for all of man's sins... past, present and future....so how are we born sinners if jesus already died to wash away our present and future sins?

The Garden story in Genesis never mentions, never hints at, is not about, sin, original sin, the Fall of Man, death entering the world, spiritual death, the need for a redeemer &c.

Apparently under the influence of the midrash tradition, such an idea nonetheless arose among the Jews of Alexandria late in the 2nd century BCE. Paul mentioned it once, but no one took much notice till Augustine of Hippo around 400 CE picked up Paul's mention and made 'original sin' part of the standard Christian repertoire.

I think it's an untenable and unpleasant idea, and when used to instill fear and generate guilt in children (or grown-ups) a pernicious manipulation.

 

[Trailblazer]

I think it's an untenable and unpleasant idea, and when used to instill fear and generate guilt in children (or grown-ups) a pernicious manipulation.

You stated that a lot more politely than I would have.

 

[blü 2]

The lucky ones manage to 'unlearn' it after having been brainwashed with it

It's a bit like learning all the chess openings ─ upon a day I used to have them at my fingertips, but now ...

 

[Deeje]

Its said we are all born sinners but yet jesus died for all of man's sins... past, present and future....so how are we born sinners if jesus already died to wash away our present and future sins?

I believe that it is important to acknowledge that there are two kinds of sin in the Bible....the one we inherit from Adam that leads to aging, sickness and death.....and the ones we commit as errors of judgment, or as deliberate acts, for whatever reason.....for these we are accountable.

Hebrews 4:12-13....
"For the word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul and spirit, and of joints from the marrow, and is able to discern thoughts and intentions of the heart. 13 And there is not a creation that is hidden from his sight, but all things are naked and openly exposed to the eyes of the one to whom we must give an account."

Adamic sin is a genetic defect inherited from our original father. When disobedience took place, their perfection was lost and they became defective, and lost access to the only thing that was guaranteed to keep them alive forever...."the tree of life".

The word "sin" is an archery term meaning "to miss the mark"...they now fell short.

Jesus came to get rid of the faulty genetic inheritance, by making the way for humans to regain their life by resurrection. This will be the case until Jesus comes to judge the world.

Our genetic inheritance was not our fault, but what we choose to do in life...for this we are accountable. The sin we commit when we know better is not forgivable unless there is sincere repentance. Our imperfection can sometimes lead us into sin, but it does not have to keep us captive there. By recognizing and acknowledging what we have done, God will readily forgive if we are sincere...and as a reader of hearts, he is never fooled by crocodile tears.

As long as we remain in imperfect flesh, sin is only a thought or action away.....we have been provided all we need to prevent us from doing what God says is wrong. He outlines his standards very clearly in the Bible and they do not alter from generation to generation.....the world might change its standards, but God never does.

So as long as we are in this sin laden body, we have to guard our way so as not to be in the bad books with God.
If we stray, but realize our misstep and turn back, thanks to Jesus sacrifice, forgiveness is there already. But it is never an excuse to sin, or something that prevents us from answering for our bad behavior.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Its said we are all born sinners ..

Who said that and why should I believe that? No, I was not born in sin. The marriage of my parents was consecrated by our two extended families, the society and witnessed by Agni, the Fire-God. In my community, marriage used to be a four-day affair.

 

[Aupmanyav]

“One trespass resulted in condemnation for all people”

That is completely silly and unjust. Who was the foolish judge made this kind of judgment? If someone else steals, murders or rapes, I get punished!

Can't you recognize a scam when you see it?

Most people can't. That is why they believe in God, soul and prophets / sons / messengers / manifestations / mahdis of God or Allah.

 

[Glaurung]

Its said we are all born sinners but yet jesus died for all of man's sins... past, present and future....so how are we born sinners if jesus already died to wash away our present and future sins?

We are born subject to the effects of sin bequeathed to us by Adam. Baptism redeems the soul but the body remains subject to concupiscence and death.

 

[firedragon]

Its said we are all born sinners but yet jesus died for all of man's sins... past, present and future....so how are we born sinners if jesus already died to wash away our present and future sins?

If one person can die for other persons sins, anything is possible.

 

[stvdv]

Can't you recognize a scam when you see it?

Most people can't. That is why they believe in God, soul and prophets / sons / messengers / manifestations / mahdis of God or Allah.

You seem to shout out to us

@Aupmanyav is a scam

 

[Altfish]

How can a new born baby be a sinner?