Bunyip
pro scapegoat
It is an Oscar Wilde quote.
Because like religion, patriotism enables good people to do bad things. Nationalism is an essentiallly destructive force.
Or as Mark Twain said - Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.
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Are you a Patriot?
- Thread starter Phil25
- Start date
It is an Oscar Wilde quote.
Because like religion, patriotism enables good people to do bad things. Nationalism is an essentiallly destructive force.
Or as Mark Twain said - Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.
Alceste
Vagabond
We don't have any of those up here. But we do have a ruling conservative party that was just found guilty of election fraud. How's that for betrayal.
Don't ask me. The place I lived before Curitiba is about to reelect a known criminal and corrupt as its "governor".
Arruda afirma ser contrrio reeleio de Dilma e aplaudido - Cidades DF - Correio Braziliense
And then we had Hildebrand Paschoal, particularly rotten even by Brazilian Politician standards:
https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hildebrando_Pascoal
Betrayal is something of a basic living art for Brazilians.
Election fraud? Eeeew. Not good. Only one of the more basic tenets of democracy.
So there is a difference? What would that be?
Bunyip
pro scapegoat
I looked it up and found the same quote attributed to half a dozen people. Apologies and thanks for the correction.
Yeah. Over-simplified example, so please take this for what it's worth, but...
Let's say your country has things in place which you strongly identify with, and see as positive aspects. Democratic principles, freedom of speech, and open immigration for refugees (for instance). You may take a level of pride in that, and favourably compare your country to others. You might see the national identity of your country in a positive light.
On the other hand, a blind loyalty to your country simply because it's your country, the use of meaningless slogans based on perception rather than reality, or xenophobic attitudes skew to jingoism.
I, personally, see nothing wrong with patriotism in itself. It's just love of one's country, whether that be government, culture, heritage, or some combination of them and other things. So US patriots, though I may not join you, you go wave the stars and stripes high with pride!
Nationalism is when there's a problem. Patriotism may be loyal, but that loyalty isn't necessarily blind; nationalism is totally blind by definition.
Nationalism is when there's a problem. Patriotism may be loyal, but that loyalty isn't necessarily blind; nationalism is totally blind by definition.
I guess I just find that too weird to understand.
I hear a lot of good things about Sweden. ^_^
While I wouldnt describe myself as a patriot, thats one definition of patriotism I can sympathize with.It all depends on what definition you use:
Image from: The Forest and the Trees » Dissent is the Highest Form of Patriotism | Gerry Manacsa
sandandfoam
Veteran Member
I think that nationalism is unhealthy. 'My' country is an accident of birth and its borders are an accident of history.
If I could I would have a world without borders.
If I could I would have a world without borders.
Same here.
Lol, yeah, but I really dont agree with the politics of the current government. And there are some developments with racist parties getting more and more support that I find disturbing. There are a lot worse countries in the world, though.
But I dont think I care that much about nations in general. More interested in people then borders.
Same here. People are people.
Poeticus
| abhyAvartin |
I disagree. Sweden is awesome. I've never been there, but it is awesome. Know why ? Simply based on one inarguable fact: the midnight sun in the norther parts of Sweden. In fact, it is this fact alone that makes both Norway and Finland also amazing. Take that, you defiler of the midnight sun !
I disagree. Sweden is awesome. I've never been there, but it is awesome. Know why ? Simply based on one inarguable fact: the midnight sun in the norther parts of Sweden. In fact, it is this fact alone that makes both Norway and Finland also amazing. Take that, you defiler of the midnight sun !
I don't disagree with the lack of awesome of Midsummer's Eve that far North, but to be perfectly fair, I could get the same effect in Alaska.
Really? Hmm...I'll try and rephrase.
Take any group of people...and that's all a country is at the end of the day...and there'll be differences from OTHER groups of people.
Those differences are not indicative of better or worse people, as such. As someone said, people are people.
But one group of people has come up with a legal system that denies women property rights. Child Labour is permitted, and there is a State-religion which imposes theocratic rules about all sorts of things.
Freedom of religion and expression are violently suppressed.
The second hypothetical country has a legal system that encourages fair representation of all, including those unable to represent themselves. There are public health and social welfare programmes in place. Religion and expression are free, or at least close to it. Children are protected by law in terms of child labour, and in terms of education.
So, is someone in Country 2 wrong to feel some patriotism?
If they are proud of Country 2 simply because that's where they live, then it's jingoism. If they're pushing that everything their country does is better, same thing (or nationalism if you prefer). But I can feel a belonging and a certain level of pride (in achievement, in fairness and justice, etc) in ANY group I belong to. That includes, but is not limited to, my country.