Are you born again?

[Kolibri]

I wonder, sometimes, if people can be born-again and don't even know it. I have shared with some people before who I knew they had a relationship with God but because they never read the Bible, they didn't know it.

Actually it is impossible to not know. Here is why:

"For all who led by God's spirit are indeed God's sons. For you did not receive a spirit of slavery causing fear again, but you received a spirit of adoption as sons, by which spirit we cry out: "Abba," (An Aramaic word meaning "O Father!") Father!" The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God's children. If, then, we are children, we are also heirs - heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs with Christ - provided we suffer together so that we may also be glorified together." - Romans 8:14-17

But we do not need to be 'born again' to receive the benefits of the Kingdom. We merely need to be God's friends for that. Those 'born again,' if they die faithfully, will inherit Christ's reward - that is immortal spirit life upon their resurrection from the dead. Because of Jesus' covenant with them first mentioned at Luke 22:28-30, they will also be kings and priests with him for a time. Thus they will share in the administration of God's Kingdom from heaven.

 

[Kenny]

Actually it is impossible to not know. Here is why:

"For all who led by God's spirit are indeed God's sons. For you did not receive a spirit of slavery causing fear again, but you received a spirit of adoption as sons, by which spirit we cry out: "Abba," (An Aramaic word meaning "O Father!") Father!" The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God's children. If, then, we are children, we are also heirs - heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs with Christ - provided we suffer together so that we may also be glorified together." - Romans 8:14-17

But we do not need to be 'born again' to receive the benefits of the Kingdom. We merely need to be God's friends for that. Those 'born again,' if they die faithfully, will inherit Christ's reward - that is immortal spirit life upon their resurrection from the dead. Because of Jesus' covenant with them first mentioned at Luke 22:28-30, they will also be kings and priests with him for a time. Thus they will share in the administration of God's Kingdom from heaven.

What do you think is the difference between "born-again" and God's friends?

 

[Kolibri]

Our hope. Abraham, as God's friend, was not looking to go to heaven. He was looking to be restored to life as a human. Same as Job and all those that believed in a resurrection prior to Jesus.

"Was not Abraham our father declared righteous by works after he offered up Isaac his son on the alter? You see that his faith was active along with his works and his faith was perfected by his works, and the scripture was fulfilled that says: 'Abraham put faith in Jehovah, and it was counted to him as righteousness,' (Ge 15:6) and he came to be called Jehovah's friend. (2Ch 20:7; Isa 41:8)" - James 2:22,23

Eventually these ones will also be God's children, but not until we have been helped out of our imperfections during the 1000 year reign of Christ. It is then that we can truly be called alive.

"(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years were ended.)" - Revelation 20:5a

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I was. But I found myself in need of self-immolation. The born again needed to be incinerated to an ash so I could rise again, better and stronger than the born again.

 

[Norrin-6-]

Isn't Jesus actually saying to Nicodemus that you must be born "from above" which in Greek can be translated "again"? Thus Nicodemus mistakes Jesus as saying you must be "born again"? Interestingly, if this is the case, doesn't it call into question the authenticity of this saying, seeing as it must have originated in Greek -- a language which Jesus did not speak?

 

[Kolibri]

Isn't Jesus actually saying to Nicodemus that you must be born "from above" which in Greek can be translated "again"? Thus Nicodemus mistakes Jesus as saying you must be "born again"? Interestingly, if this is the case, doesn't it call into question the authenticity of this saying, seeing as it must have originated in Greek -- a language which Jesus did not speak?

"born from above" is indeed an alternate rendering.

Either way, being born is not something we chose for ourselves in the flesh. Nor is it something that we chose in this spiritual way. It is something that happens to those selected to be in the "new covenant" of Jeremiah 31:31

 

[psychoslice]

I am reborn everyday, as Paul said," I die daily".

 

[Norrin-6-]

"born from above" is indeed an alternate rendering.

Right. I guess the point I'm making is that this becomes a double entendre in the Greek, which the narrative lends itself to. So it seems to me that this interaction (at least as it is written) is an invention of the "writer" (I'm using that term loosely as it may have been passed down orally).

 

[Skwim]

God save me from being born again.

 

[Kenny]

Our hope. Abraham, as God's friend, was not looking to go to heaven. He was looking to be restored to life as a human. Same as Job and all those that believed in a resurrection prior to Jesus.

"Was not Abraham our father declared righteous by works after he offered up Isaac his son on the alter? You see that his faith was active along with his works and his faith was perfected by his works, and the scripture was fulfilled that says: 'Abraham put faith in Jehovah, and it was counted to him as righteousness,' (Ge 15:6) and he came to be called Jehovah's friend. (2Ch 20:7; Isa 41:8)" - James 2:22,23

Eventually these ones will also be God's children, but not until we have been helped out of our imperfections during the 1000 year reign of Christ. It is then that we can truly be called alive.

"(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years were ended.)" - Revelation 20:5a

Interesting perspective (although I wouldn't subscribe to that position). Abraham saw the day of Jesus and his hope was also in the resurrection.

No need to argue... just sharing my position.

 

[Valjean]

Are you born again?

From a Hindu perspective this question goes in a whole different direction.

 

[Kenny]

God save me from being born again.

He will yield to your decision.

 

[Skwim]

He will yield to your decision.

Ah, god's designated Earthly spokesperson has spoken. Thanks for passing along his decision.

 

[Kenny]

Ah, god's designated Earthly spokesperson has spoken. Thanks for passing along his decision.

You misunderstood... it is your decision.

 

[Skwim]

You misunderstood... it is your decision.

No I didn't. We're talking about what YOU said. NOT ME. YOU made an assertion of fact: "He will yield to your decision". And I'm prodding you for your source of this fact. Care to tell us? Or do we get more tap dancing from you?

 

[Ouroboros]

I was born, then I was born again. Then I felt a renewal many times through my life, and at one point, I became an atheist, which felt like I was re-born yet again. And recently, I believe I've been born again again. Life should be filled with the experiences of come alive once again.

 

[Kenny]

No I didn't. We're talking about what YOU said. NOT ME. YOU made an assertion of fact: "He will yield to your decision". And I'm prodding you for your source of this fact. Care to tell us? Or do we get more tap dancing from you?

What part of free will do you not understand?

And please share how it came about that you became so antagonistic so that I can understand better?

 

[Skwim]

What part of free will do you not understand?

Aside from the fact that I consider freewill to be an illusion, your red herring here smells. Stick to the issue if you wish to continue.

And please share how it came about that you became so antagonistic so that I can understand better?

Sorry that my assessment of your means of divining god's intent, "He will yield to your decision," comes across as antagonistic. Please correct it and tell us how you come by your knowledge. How is it you know that god "will yield to [my] decision"?

 

[Kenny]

Aside from the fact that I consider freewill to be an illusion, your red herring here smells. Stick to the issue if you wish to continue.

Sorry that my assessment of your means of divining god's intent, "He will yield to your decision," comes across as antagonistic. Please correct it and tell us how you come by your knowledge. How is it know that god "will yield to [my] decision"?

Because He created you as a free-will spiritual agent. Even now, no one can actually force you to do something.

Maybe we should start over...

HI, my name is Ken!

 

[Skwim]

Because He created you as a free-will spiritual agent. Even now, no one can actually force you to do something.

Maybe we should start over...

HI, my name is Ken!

Okay. I'm Skwim, a hard determinist.

"Determinism is the doctrine that all events, including human action, are ultimately determined by causes external to the will. Some philosophers have taken determinism to imply that individual human beings have no free will and cannot be held morally responsible for their actions."
(source Google)

"Hard determinism (or metaphysical determinism) is a view on free will which holds that determinism is true, and that it is incompatible with free will, and, therefore, that free will does not exist."
(source: Wikipedia)