Are you closed minded?

[charlie sc]

How certain are you of this question?

How can a question have certainty? Questions aren't declarations of fact or claims.

 

[Unguru]

Questions aren't declarations of fact or claims.

Are you certain of this? How would you provide evidence for this to show that you're correct? Does this represent your Atheism?

 

[charlie sc]

Are you certain of this? How would you provide evidence for this to show that you're correct? Does this represent your Atheism?

Questions are atheistic in nature? You know what, that actually makes sense... lol

I guess you shouldn't ask questions unless you want to turn into an atheist!

 

[charlie sc]

Ok here goes. By the way I enjoy reading your posts.

I enjoy your posts too.

 

[Unguru]

Questions are atheistic in nature. You know what, that actually makes sense... lol

Why are you deflecting? Is the question that hard to answer? or you're just to scared to answer it?

 

[charlie sc]

Why are you deflecting? Is the question that hard to answer? or you're just to scared to answer it?

I don't know what you want me to do. Questions are usually designed to gather more information or to clarify information. Since you are concerned over, ummm, the (un)certainty of questions, why don't you explain whatever theory you have?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Concerning god, most atheists are agnostic atheists or soft atheists. Therefore, their belief has some form of uncertainty. I, and I think other soft atheists, believe god(s) are possible, but unlikely.

Contrary to this, it seems most theists are absolutely certain god(s) exist. I’ve noticed, some theists will even say it’s possible their god does not exist but immediately deny what they said with some tangent. Therefore, they’re absolutely certain.

I propose that people who are absolutely certain about a topic, especially one as controversial as this, are closed minded. People who are closed minded cannot accept new information to the contrary; they’ll dismiss it without a thought. Even Socrates understood the immense problems with certainty. Even science does not use absolutely certainty.

Are you absolutely certain god exists or not?
VS Do you believe it’s most likely god exist but possible god does not exist or it’s unlikely but possible?

Here, I’ll go first.

I think it’s possible but unlikely god(s) exist. The end.

Let’s see how open minded or closed minded you are.

As a tracker, I'm going to see how many atheists vs theists answer this question. I'll try update this as much as I can and I won't name people to respect their identity

Atheists: 14 - Theists: 11
Uncertain atheists: 12 - Uncertain theists: 4
Absolutely Certain atheists: 2 - Absolutely Certain theists: 7

I'm "as certain as can be" that certain specific gods don't exist - or at the very least, the way they are prortrayed an not possibly be correct, as it contradicts observable reality. And when observable reality contradicts faith based beliefs - it's never observable reality that is incorrect.


The more generic the god being proposed, the less certain I am.


At no point am I ever 100% certain of anything.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Your OP in this thread. It looks ugly and depraved to me.

???

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I have science on my side.....
Cause and effect
the universe is the effect
God is the Cause

1. there is no such thing in science as a "law of cause and effect", contrary to what apologist would like you to believe

2. even if there were, it would be a law of physics. Physics, as it applies WITHIN the space time continuum. You can't use physics that apply IN the universe and then pretend they also apply "outside" of it (whatever that meanst).

3. science is about predictability, falsifiability and demonstration through evidence. So just asserting that your god caused the universe, without demonstrating it, without it having any kind of testable prediction, without that assertion being falsifiable.... is the very opposite of science.

atheists......strike out
Thief.....homerun

Thief ...one
and won

nonbelievers.....zeroes

oh....and I guess that makes me closed minded on this topic

Closed/open mindedness is about how prepared you are to change your views in light of new information.
So let's test that...

I just informed you about how fallacious your statements were.
What will you do with that information?

 

[loverofhumanity]

A very wise thing to say, indeed

But I really do know no pretending whatsoever.

I suppose that labels me here as ‘super closed minded’ but not to worry as I would prefer this ‘super closed mindedness’ any day to the ‘open mindedness’ of an atheists ‘doubt’. Lol.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

You are judging people who claim they have faith by the standards of reason. That's unreasonable.

Euh......

"reasonable" would be: according to standards of reason.

Here, you seem to be saying that the standards of reason don't apply to "faith"....
That would make faith unreasonable...

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

If I understand you correctly, that is where I think God evidences some "objective" superiority as an imaginal being...the persistence of God in many forms, in many cultures and all equally so very important to so many people while being simultaneously so not demonstrably real in any physical sense.

To me, that just means that humans have a tendency of superstitious beliefs and infusing "agency" in seemingly random events.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Concerning god, most atheists are agnostic atheists or soft atheists. Therefore, their belief has some form of uncertainty. I, and I think other soft atheists, believe god(s) are possible, but unlikely.

Contrary to this, it seems most theists are absolutely certain god(s) exist. I’ve noticed, some theists will even say it’s possible their god does not exist but immediately deny what they said with some tangent. Therefore, they’re absolutely certain.

I propose that people who are absolutely certain about a topic, especially one as controversial as this, are closed minded. People who are closed minded cannot accept new information to the contrary; they’ll dismiss it without a thought. Even Socrates understood the immense problems with certainty. Even science does not use absolutely certainty.

Are you absolutely certain god exists or not?
VS Do you believe it’s most likely god exist but possible god does not exist or it’s unlikely but possible?

Here, I’ll go first.

I think it’s possible but unlikely god(s) exist. The end.

Let’s see how open minded or closed minded you are.

As a tracker, I'm going to see how many atheists vs theists answer this question. I'll try update this as much as I can and I won't name people to respect their identity

Atheists: 14 - Theists: 11
Uncertain atheists: 12 - Uncertain theists: 4
Absolutely Certain atheists: 2 - Absolutely Certain theists: 7

Come to think of it.... I think I need to disagree with your basic premise here.

"absolute certainty" doesn't necessarily equal closed mindedness imo.

Closed/open mindedness, talks about someone's ability or capacity of being able and willing to change his/her mind on something.

I don't see how being "absolutely certain" about something, would rule that out.
I could be absolutely certain to have put my keys on my desk.
Video footage then later shows I actually left them hanging on the door.
Eventhough I still don't remember, I'ld have to change my mind and admit that yes... apparantly I didn't put them on my desk after all.

See?

I think what you are looking for are dogmatic beliefs.
Being dogmatic in a belief, is not the same as being certain about a belief.

 

[charlie sc]

Closed/open mindedness, talks about someone's ability or capacity of being able and willing to change his/her mind on something.

I don't see how being "absolutely certain" about something, would rule that out.
I could be absolutely certain to have put my keys on my desk.
Video footage then later shows I actually left them hanging on the door.
Eventhough I still don't remember, I'ld have to change my mind and admit that yes... apparantly I didn't put them on my desk after all.

See?

I think what you are looking for are dogmatic beliefs.
Being dogmatic in a belief, is not the same as being certain about a belief.

This is slightly veering towards empirical evidence to the contrary but it's still similar.You're assuming this person will change their mind once they see video-footage. I don't think this happens for everyone. Look at those flat-Earthers, hollow Earthers, and so on. Flat Earthers will say, after they viewed an image of earth or the curvature from Earth from space, that the image or footage has been doctored. Look at Creationists and how they ignore empirical evidence to the extreme. Therefore, my proposition still applies

 

[charlie sc]

I would prefer this ‘super closed mindedness’ any day to the ‘open mindedness’ of an atheists ‘doubt’. Lol.

Why would you prefer being super closed minded than an atheist?

 

[ChristineM]

Hahahahahaha. No.

Human suffering is not a disproof of God. At best, it is proof that God is evil or at best neutral. The Hebrew Tanakh/Bible agrees with this assessment showing numerous times where God outright punishes people, and
Isaiah 45:7 declares in no uncertain terms that God is the source not only of good but also misfortune. However, even the existence of evil is far more than that could exist on its own. As for the existence of God, if not for God, you would not exist. In fact, nothing in this universe can exist without a massive dispersion of energy or matter, AKA the Big Bang. Before such, matter as Stephen Hawking himself agrees, is compressed into a nonmatter state. Sound familiar? It should. Genesis 1:2-3 speaks of a void which becomes light.

https://strangenotions.com/hawking-proof-for-god/

There are different religions. Yes. So what? I personally accept all of them aside from Islam, which I do not consider a true religion. I am not a Christian, but I am not not a Christian either. Rather I believe that the original religion was worship of God, nature, and the universe. Then people began to split from essential awe of all that is as God into worshiping things (idolatry) which in turn became manmade statue "gods" and silly dogmatic differences. God is a Creative Force of Life, God is present as part of all that exists, and God is our soul. This is the Trinity, but more than that it overlaps with Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Taoism, Shintoism, and any real religion to greater or less. What makes you think God would disallow other religions? All real ones are true. Having talked to you before, you have some misguided notion that Christianity is some sort of tribal religion rather than the end result of centuries of Jewish and Christian theologians and philosophers studying reality as they lived within it.

Classic God of the gaps fallacy. Sorry, but if it doesn't work for Christians, pretty sure it can't work in reverse for atheists. Sorry, there, but you might actually have to explain how this "stuff" works. I grew up going to public and private schools, not backwater church schools. I learned about science. I believe gravity works. I believe in basic (not survival of the fittest, which I condemn for its role in Nazi theory and eugenics) evolution. I am not convinced that understanding how things work rules out the role of a Creator in making it work. In fact, I am a novice computer programmer. I could fully believe in a God who basically created the universe as a program. Something like this.

Certain, are we? Recall that I've talked with you personally. I happen to know that's crap. You have a personal beef with theism because of some punk kids who knocked over one of your relatives and beat him up. This is not a person who "knows" a god doesn't exist, this is someone who hates the idea of a deity. This is the equivalent of "God doesn't exist and I hate him." Yeaaaaah, one or the other.

Lastly "any significantly advanced being is indistinguishable from a god." (Shermer’s Last Law)

Your opinion is noted, however it is said god is an omni everything designer, if he deliberately designed childhood leukemia then that us one sick minded god you have there. Is that the sort of god you want to believe in?

 

[ChristineM]

Are you absolutely certain?

Yup

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

This is slightly veering towards empirical evidence to the contrary but it's still similar.You're assuming this person will change their mind once they see video-footage. I don't think this happens for everyone. Look at those flat-Earthers, hollow Earthers, and so on. Flat Earthers will say, after they viewed an image of earth or the curvature from Earth from space, that the image or footage has been doctored.

Yes, but then you are, as I said, talking about dogmatism. Not mere certainty of beliefs.
It's being certain of a belief and treating it as unquestionable.
And then, due to that dogmatism, going ahead and assuming that any and all evidence to the contrary MUST be wrong by definition.

Words to describe such a (closed minded) belief would be "dogmatic" and "unquestionable".

Again, I can be certain of something and then find out - and accept - that I was wrong.
But I can not be dogmatically certain of something and then do the same.
The dogmatism would prevent me from doing so... Not the certainty.

Look at Creationists and how they ignore empirical evidence to the extreme.

Yes. And the reason would be their dogmatism. Not their conviction / degree of belief.

 

[charlie sc]

Yes, but then you are, as I said, talking about dogmatism. Not mere certainty of beliefs.
It's being certain of a belief and treating it as unquestionable.
And then, due to that dogmatism, going ahead and assuming that any and all evidence to the contrary MUST be wrong by definition.

Words to describe such a (closed minded) belief would be "dogmatic" and "unquestionable".

Again, I can be certain of something and then find out - and accept - that I was wrong.
But I can not be dogmatically certain of something and then do the same.
The dogmatism would prevent me from doing so... Not the certainty.



Yes. And the reason would be their dogmatism. Not their conviction / degree of belief.

Assuming it is dogmatism, perhaps then dogmatism is can be measured by certainty. And absolute certainty is the extreme end of believe. You may notice, the IQ vs religiosity studies have better explanatory power with varying degrees of certainty.

 

[charlie sc]

Yup

How can you be so certain of something that’s so ill defined and has no scientific data?