Are you for bringing back sacrifice in your religion?

[Desert Snake]

How barbaric! Why take society back in time to an era when we thought that spitting on a wound would disinfect it or that women were to be literally treated as objects? There is a psychological reason why we need to leave those ancient rituals in the past. Humanity has matured to the age where we no longer need neurotic chanting to make us feel better. If you have guilt issues then go see a psychologist like a modern human being.

Is neurotic chanting different from 'regular' chanting? Who's making that decision?

 

[joshua3886]

Is neurotic chanting different from 'regular' chanting? Who's making that decision?

Yes it is different from a psychological standpoint. Regular chanting is something you do at a football game "Defense, defense" or at a concert so the band will play your favorite song. You understand what you're chanting and why you are chanting it. Neurotic chanting is when you do it because you've been indoctrinated to do so, such as saying the Hail Mary 10 times because a priest told you to do so. Or prayer before a meal. I still remember as a child praying for my food saying "God is great, God is good, let us thank him for our food. Amen". I didn't know why I had to say it, I just said it because that's what my parents said and my parents would do the same thing almost in a trance without thinking about what they were actually saying. Neurosis is something uncontrollable and irrational. Like Bart Simpson said "Dear God, we paid for this food so thanks for nothing." If you asked people to explain how not praying for their food would somehow anger God they would be unable to give you a rational response, just like somebody suffering from any other kind of neurosis.

 

[Storm]

How barbaric! Why take society back in time to an era when we thought that spitting on a wound would disinfect it or that women were to be literally treated as objects? There is a psychological reason why we need to leave those ancient rituals in the past. Humanity has matured to the age where we no longer need neurotic chanting to make us feel better. If you have guilt issues then go see a psychologist like a modern human being.

You might try reading through the thread before flaunting your ignorant superiority. Might find out what people are actually talking about.

BTW, humanity has actually matured to the point that our neuroscientists are 'discovering' that lots of the "neurotic chanting" you're so eager to sneer at consistently provides tangible, though internal, benefits. Dendrite growth, lowered production of stress hormones, boosted neural processing, etc....

Just because something is old doesn't mean it's stupid.

 

[Storm]

Yes it is different from a psychological standpoint. Regular chanting is something you do at a football game "Defense, defense" or at a concert so the band will play your favorite song. You understand what you're chanting and why you are chanting it. Neurotic chanting is when you do it because you've been indoctrinated to do so, such as saying the Hail Mary 10 times because a priest told you to do so. Or prayer before a meal. I still remember as a child praying for my food saying "God is great, God is good, let us thank him for our food. Amen". I didn't know why I had to say it, I just said it because that's what my parents said and my parents would do the same thing almost in a trance without thinking about what they were actually saying. Neurosis is something uncontrollable and irrational. Like Bart Simpson said "Dear God, we paid for this food so thanks for nothing." If you asked people to explain how not praying for their food would somehow anger God they would be unable to give you a rational response, just like somebody suffering from any other kind of neurosis.

Maybe because it's a dumb question that misses the point completely.

 

[Riverwolf]

How barbaric!

Better than what we currently do to animals.

Why take society back in time to an era when we thought that spitting on a wound would disinfect it

Where?

or that women were to be literally treated as objects?

Not in the North.

There is a psychological reason why we need to leave those ancient rituals in the past.

And that would be...

Humanity has matured to the age where we no longer need neurotic chanting to make us feel better.

There's other reasons for the chanting.

If you have guilt issues then go see a psychologist like a modern human being.

I prefer to not adhere to the mindset of imperialist Rome.

 

[Riverwolf]

Yes it is different from a psychological standpoint. Regular chanting is something you do at a football game "Defense, defense" or at a concert so the band will play your favorite song. You understand what you're chanting and why you are chanting it.

And I never chanted what I didn't understand.

Neurotic chanting is when you do it because you've been indoctrinated to do so, such as saying the Hail Mary 10 times because a priest told you to do so. Or prayer before a meal. I still remember as a child praying for my food saying "God is great, God is good, let us thank him for our food. Amen". I didn't know why I had to say it, I just said it because that's what my parents said and my parents would do the same thing almost in a trance without thinking about what they were actually saying.

The only one of those that I had, and I resisted even that one, was the Pledge of Allegiance. But once I had an inkling of what I was saying, I stopped.

I didn't grow up in a religious household, anyway.

Nowadays I'll chant the second Merseburger Incantation (or as I call it, Phol and Woden), but that's because I enjoy it. I also know it for what it is: a healing chant.

Will it heal a broken ankle if I chant it, as the words are about healing a horse's broken ankle? Of course not.

And the people who would have chanted it in the Old Days would, in all likelihood, have answered the same way.

Neurosis is something uncontrollable and irrational. Like Bart Simpson said "Dear God, we paid for this food so thanks for nothing." If you asked people to explain how not praying for their food would somehow anger God they would be unable to give you a rational response, just like somebody suffering from any other kind of neurosis.

And how do you know this?

 

[BSM1]

How barbaric! Why take society back in time to an era when we thought that spitting on a wound would disinfect it or that women were to be literally treated as objects? There is a psychological reason why we need to leave those ancient rituals in the past. Humanity has matured to the age where we no longer need neurotic chanting to make us feel better. If you have guilt issues then go see a psychologist like a modern human being.

Wait...spitting on a wound doesn't disinfect it??

 

[joshua3886]

And I never chanted what I didn't understand.



The only one of those that I had, and I resisted even that one, was the Pledge of Allegiance. But once I had an inkling of what I was saying, I stopped.

I didn't grow up in a religious household, anyway.

Nowadays I'll chant the second Merseburger Incantation (or as I call it, Phol and Woden), but that's because I enjoy it. I also know it for what it is: a healing chant.

Will it heal a broken ankle if I chant it, as the words are about healing a horse's broken ankle? Of course not.

And the people who would have chanted it in the Old Days would, in all likelihood, have answered the same way.



And how do you know this?

I'm quoting Sigmund Freud. He compared religion to a "childhood neurosis". I see it happen all the time whenever I debate someone about religion. If I get to a point where their beliefs don't make any sense they start repeating random and nonsensical bible quotes or quotes from some pastor. It also happens all the time in these religious posts. It's always gibberish and obvious proof that they are brainwashed or something is psychologically wrong.

 

[Jainarayan]

Not in the North.

Neither in Sparta. An Athenian woman asked a Spartan woman how was it that Spartan women had such control over Spartan men. The Spartan woman answered "because only Spartan women give birth to Spartan men".

 

[Jainarayan]

I'm quoting Sigmund Freud.

/End thread.

 

[Riverwolf]

I'm quoting Sigmund Freud. He compared religion to a "childhood neurosis".

He also thought everything in our psychology had to do with repressed sexuality. I'm taking the stuff he said with a grain of salt.

A really, really big one.

'Bout the only thing he said of worth that I can recall is, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

I see it happen all the time whenever I debate someone about religion. If I get to a point where their beliefs don't make any sense they start repeating random and nonsensical bible quotes or quotes from some pastor. It also happens all the time in these religious posts. It's always gibberish and obvious proof that they are brainwashed or something is psychologically wrong.

It's not proof of anything, and I, in fact, don't see it much. I see it sometimes, but not all the time. They're also typically not brainwashed. The frequent equation of raising children in religious practices with brainwashing is not only highly insensitive to actual brainwashing cases, it's use like that is clearly nothing more than applying a buzz word to get a point across using emotional appeal; typical of propaganda. In reality, it's not any more brainwashing than raising our kids in any cultural context. Saying Grace before a meal isn't any more brainwashing than singing Happy Birthday on someone's birthday.

There are times when I will speak in mythological terms. I enjoy speaking in terms like that, but everything I say like can be translated to terminology that would be more familiar to someone who doesn't think in terms of Lore. At least one time, I've done just that.

What you say also demonstrates that you have very, very little real experience debating people about religion, since you bring up that your opponents are always quoting the Bible. That indicates that you only ever debate religion with people who are a certain type of Christian. That's hardly a good sample to draw from when trying to make conclusions about religion as a whole. I'm Asatru; you won't be seeing me quoting the Bible unless we're debating something that has to do with it.

 

[Storm]

I'm quoting Sigmund Freud. He compared religion to a "childhood neurosis".

Uh huh. He also wrote treaties about how all women are deeply traumatized by the realization that they were castrated, and require intensive care to come to terms with our existence as defective males fit only for breeding.

You would think someone trumpeting the benefits of modern psychology would have a source that wasn't a full century out of date.

I see it happen all the time whenever I debate someone about religion.

Barging in to call people neurotic barbarians in need of psychologists is not debating anything. But I'm sure it helps ensure that you see only what you want to see.

If I get to a point where their beliefs don't make any sense they start repeating random and nonsensical bible quotes or quotes from some pastor. It also happens all the time in these religious posts. It's always gibberish and obvious proof that they are brainwashed or something is psychologically wrong.

You can't "get" to a point you refuse to look beyond. Your assumptions are your failing, nobody else's.

 

[Riverwolf]

Uh huh. He also wrote treaties about how all women are deeply traumatized by the realization that they were castrated, and require intensive care to come to terms with our existence as defective males fit only for breeding.

You would think someone trumpeting the benefits of modern psychology would have a source that wasn't a full century out of date.

In fact, isn't he more of a historical footnote in contemporary psychology academia?

 

[Storm]

In fact, isn't he more of a historical footnote in contemporary psychology academia?

Indeed, an embarrassing one.

Such as his actual "theory" (more of a lurid fantasy, really) on how the neurosis of religion took hold.

You see, back in the dawn of time, some poor, virile cavemanlymen were horribly frustrated that their father refused to share his harem of castrated baby machines. So they murdered and cannibalized him. But once they got laid, they realized That Was Bad, so they elevated dinner!daddy to Godhood so that they could make it up to him and not get smote. How pre-divinity dinner!daddy was supposed to get to smiting in the first place doesn't merit explanation, it's enough to know that everyone was stupid and horny and psychotic, therefore God.

Clearly, this is the ultimate authority on religion.

 

[Riverwolf]

Indeed, an embarrassing one.

Such as his actual "theory" (more of a lurid fantasy, really) on how the neurosis of religion took hold.

You see, back in the dawn of time, some poor, virile cavemamlymen were horribly frustrated that their father refused to share his harem of castrated baby machines. So they murdered and cannibalized him. But once they got laid, they realized That Was Bad, so they elevated dinner!daddy to Godhood so that they could make it up to him and not get smote. How pre-divinity dinner!daddy was supposed to get to smiting in the first place doesn't merit explanation, it's enough to know that everyone was stupid and horny and psychotic, therefore God.

Clearly, this is the ultimate authority on religion.

CLEARLY!

Seriously, that sounds like the backstory to some cash-grab fantasy MMO trying to be "edgy".

 

[Quintessence]

In fact, isn't he more of a historical footnote in contemporary psychology academia?

I don't know if I'd say historical footnote. What I took away from Freud in my psychology coursework were the elements of his work that were still relevant to the modern day, which are things like the idea of psychotherapy and psychoanalysis, repression of memories and usage of dreams, and divisions of consciousness (Id, Ego, Superego). Yes, he had some incredibly sexist and bigoted ideas that were a product of his time, but we didn't throw the seeds out with the dirt.

 

[Riverwolf]

I don't know if I'd say historical footnote. What I took away from Freud in my psychology coursework were the elements of his work that were still relevant to the modern day, which are things like the idea of psychotherapy and psychoanalysis, repression of memories and usage of dreams, and divisions of consciousness (Id, Ego, Superego). Yes, he had some incredibly sexist and bigoted ideas that were a product of his time, but we didn't throw the seeds out with the dirt.

Fair points. Perhaps more than "footnote", but hardly an "authority".

 

[Storm]

I don't know if I'd say historical footnote. What I took away from Freud in my psychology coursework were the elements of his work that were still relevant to the modern day, which are things like the idea of psychotherapy and psychoanalysis, repression of memories and usage of dreams, and divisions of consciousness (Id, Ego, Superego). Yes, he had some incredibly sexist and bigoted ideas that were a product of his time, but we didn't throw the seeds out with the dirt.

And I got no gripe with that.

But the opportunity of someone citing last century's paragon of neurosis as some sort of authority that religion is inherently neurotic, right after sneering at us about how we need to just go to modern therapy? Sorry, but there ain't no way in hell I'm passing that one up.

LMAO

 

[Riverwolf]

And I got no gripe with that.

But the opportunity of someone citing last century's paragon of neurosis as some sort of authority that religion is inherently neurotic, right after sneering at us about how we need to just go to modern therapy? Sorry, but there ain't no way in hell I'm passing that one up.

LMAO

I'm already in therapy for my Asperger's Syndrome. I'll probably be in such therapy all my life, even if I'm "fine" at any given point in my life, if only for preventative reasons.

I don't need therapy for following a religion, because it doesn't interfere with my life. If anything, it provides yet another thing that helps me contextualize my life in such a way that I can live it. Therapy is NEVER the be-all-end-all of help; no one thing ever is.

And Freud's theories never come up during our sessions.