Which means there's no truth. I mean truth in the sense that ideas conform to what is verifiable and correct. I don;t mean truth in the sense that it's a personal dogma that is self-validated regardless of evidence.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Aren’t we all really worshipping the same God?
- Thread starter loverofhumanity
- Start date
Islam provides for everything it teaches, a means to see it's wisdom and proof for it. Most Muslims have not realized that about Islam because they rely on scholars to think and study for them. Yet, there are ways to approach the sent ones, and come to the truth and with plenty and plenty of proofs and signs.
All right - I'll play along and ignore your posts in the thread since the OP.
Would you agree that "we all believe in the same god" would be hypothetically useful for proselytizing?
And can you see how an outside observer could infer a lot of ego and condescension in the dismissal of differences needed for a hypothetical person to say "we all believe in the same god"?
To me, it's opposite. It's not useful for proselytizing, but for peaceful co-existence, some patching of unity where there is disunity, and a basis to move forward from all sides.
For proselytizing, you should use the other angle, that we don't worship the same God because your God is irrational. For example, I see the Sunni concept of God a being that doesn't care about government power humans rights and doesn't care for justice to be blunt. He is negligible of his servants and set up the community of Islam for failure.
However, this dialogue is only possible to say, because in reality both Sunni and Shias also believe in the same God and so you work with that, to show that their concept of God doesn't hold to his exalted status that they should attribute to him in terms of actions and guidance as well.
So these two approaches, our God is the same God, and what is the best of Creators - are part of the same coin.
When talking about cohesion and unity and agree to disagree and live and let live principles, you emphasize what unites you including we worship the same God angle.
When wanting to prove your religion right, you shouldn't do that, you should show where the other goes wrong about God.
Yet many get along fine without Islam. And some Muslims act unwisely and even criminally. So religions don't solve the biggest hurdles for human exprience.
A terrible endorsement for Islam. Maybe some other religion will offer a better solution for humans.
Who are the "sent ones", and who decides who they are? Them? This is the dilemma with religion, too much self-verification of having the "truth". Why is this a dilemma? Because Christians will call both you and me destined for hell, and naturally damned. Yet we both have the autonomy and personal authority to reject an entire religion's claims. That means we individuals have more power than all the religions on the planet. And where is the absent God?
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Reality does not have the attributes that the religious ascribe to God/Gods/Goddesses.
Last edited:
Fine in terms of what standards? A person can be happy without Islam, sure. But if we were created for happiness of that type, this world should not exist. Suffering would not exist. We are being tested and tried with each other. We need guidance from each other but also God. God has to be the ultimate source of guidance.
Now just because he provides that guidance, and people acknowledge the right religion outwardly, does not mean it's being followed. So while it's a necessary condition for humanity well being to follow guidance from God, it doesn't mean if guidance from God is provided, that it implies it will be well off since it's still possible great amount don't follow and very few amount do follow.
As I've shown - there are constraints in reality. We can say God can do this and that, but logic is a set of rules that cannot be broken, and the world is created on logical rules and God cannot break rules of logic.
Miracles are breaking rules of science, but not rules of logic.
You have to have clear proof for them. God provides the clear proof for them, and they themselves provide clear proof for that clear proof. So they go together. How you approach the two together, will determine if you will arrive at guidance.
IF you dismiss knowledge and say it's impossible to know, you set yourself up for failure. If you are naive and don't care for proof and go chaotically just wanting to believe for meaning in life, you won't arrive at truth either.
Nice way to completely disrespect Judaism. Of course Muslims can disregard Christianity in the same way by saying the Quran supercedes the NT part of the Bible. Or Mormons. Every new offshoot has to prey on the previous version of the religion, which explains the history of violence. Look at how Jews are still vilified even after the Holocaust.
Muslims don't see Jesus as a path to salvation. They built on Judaism and Christianity to form another offshoot.
You being a Christain means Judaism is wrong (as you admit). Muslims existing means Christianity is wrong too. So we can trust Muslims since they are the last significant change, and they can dismiss your interpretation of the OT and NT, right?
If you disagree, why should we truth you in how you insist Jews are wrong in how they interpret the Bible? You offered no evidence or argument. You don't even explain why anyone should by default trust Christians, and not Jews or Muslims. Your personal belief means zero.
Great, so atheists suffer no consequences for using this freedom, right?
Remember, there's no freedom when there's a gun to your head.
These are only evidence if you assume they are true. Critical minds avoid assuming defacto.
We know Bibles exist (many different interpretations), but it's obvious much of the content is not factual. So you need evidence that demonstrates the non-factual bits are true in reality. Where is it?
I have no idea what you mean by your second point. Too vague.
I wonder how much freedom Muslims have in theocracies. Do they have the freedom to be Christian, Jewish, or atheist?
Why assume a God is testing us when it's clear that how we manage our societies comes from broader freedom and equality that often goes against rigid religious laws? The history of civilization illustrates that rigid religious authority gets rejected as education expands. That is why secular government is prominent in the West.
But Muslims don't follow God any more than Christians do. Religious people follow their human middlemen to the absent God. How else do you explain the disagreements among Muslims, Christians, jews, and between all the religions as institutions? Where's the absent God????
I would say that is the ongoing assignment to religions. They just don;t work well in reality, as there is inevitably a conflict.
There's no logic to be applied because God is not a fact. That why you say God is one thing, and Christians will say God is something else.
There are no miracles. And science is a logical process, not a separate thing.
This is a claim, where is the evidence that you are correct? Remember, your personal religious belief means nothing. We require facts.
You haven't provided knowledge. I can read about Islam and Christianity and know what they say. This doesn't mean that Christians know their ideas are true. It doesn't mean that Muslims are correct in their views, either.
Yet what does Quran and hadiths actually say about relying on middlemen not from God but leaders from (reputation) in eyes of people? That is a whole subject that you should explore.
God sends the Messengers, God gives them as the proof and delivers the Message via them.
That is the truth, or it is not. We all get to choose.
Regards Tony
There are sincere people that are not delusional. Thus back to square one where the motivation of our heart and Justice and Truthfulness should be a priority.
Regards Tony
One can choose that position and best of luck in life with that position.
I rely upon God's guidance to motivate my decisions.
Regards Tony
How do you know this? What evidence is this based on?
How do you determine truth, if not by empirical evidence and testing?
How are you defining delusional?
First, no God is known to exist. Second, even if a God exists what is conclusive about a Messenger being genuine? So far all you’ve done is make fantastic claims, yet no evidence.
Well since you offer no evidence for these extraordinary claims it’s dismissed as untrue.
Right, they tell the truth and don’t claim untrue ideas are true. Credibility comes with being correct and able to demonstrate you are correct.
Then why do you make extraordinary claims yet disrespect the forum by not demonstrating they are factual and correct?
McBell
Unbound
Post #109
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
Your beliefs mean something to you, and my beliefs mean something to me.
