Aren’t we all really worshipping the same God?

[Aupmanyav]

I really love that quote from the Rig Veda. Truth is one. The wise describe it in various ways. Whenever I pray or worship I have no image in my mind of God because I know then I would be worshipping the image created by my own mind and that is not God. So when I pray I just pray but don’t know. I may use the word God but beyond that I know nothing. And I think everyone is reaching out to that Entity but that we don’t acknowledge it and start judging one another and then wars when we are all doing the same thing but just in a different way.

If you do not know anything about whom you are praying other that just three syllables (g-o-d), then why are you praying? Why make a presumption that anything like that exists? You are obviously praying to an entity which your mind has created.

RigVeda also says: "को अद्धा वेद क इह पर वोचत कुत आजाता कुत इयंविस्र्ष्टिः?"
"ko addhā veda ka iha pravocat kuta ājātā kuta iyaṃ visṛiṣṭiḥ"
"The Gods are later than this world's production. Who knows then whence it first came into being?"

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN CXXIX. Creation.

Rig Veda, tr. by Ralph T.H. Griffith, [1896], full text etext at sacred-texts.com

sacred-texts.com

Don't you like that verse?

I agree that there is too much superstition in the name of religion but things like the human body and nature reflect signs of an unfathomable and unparalleled Intelligence.

What is your evidence for it? Only the word of uneducated people from Middle-East over the centuries (Iran too is within that border-line)? Such religions are nothing other than creations of people who took advantage of peoples' superstitions.

 

[danieldemol]

“As all men are alike, though infinitely various, so all religions.”

- William Blake

Makes sense since all religions are man-made in my view.

 

[loverofhumanity]

If you do not know anything about whom you are praying other that just three syllables (g-o-d), then why are you praying? Why make a presumption that anything like that exists? You are obviously praying to an entity which your mind has created.

RigVeda also says: "को अद्धा वेद क इह पर वोचत कुत आजाता कुत इयंविस्र्ष्टिः?"
"ko addhā veda ka iha pravocat kuta ājātā kuta iyaṃ visṛiṣṭiḥ"
"The Gods are later than this world's production. Who knows then whence it first came into being?"

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN CXXIX. Creation.

Rig Veda, tr. by Ralph T.H. Griffith, [1896], full text etext at sacred-texts.com

sacred-texts.com

Don't you like that verse?

What is your evidence for it? Only the word of uneducated people from Middle-East over the centuries (Iran too is within that border-line)?

My understanding is that the mind cannot contain God but that we have the ability to recognise God or detect God through our inner senses such as insight and perception. Just like outward hearing and sight we also have inner senses. It is these senses that can detect God but not know Him fully. Much like knowing the sun is in the sky but unable to directly look at it.

So my inner senses ‘know’ God exists through all the Prophets and Messengers Who’s Words have the Holy Spirit of God embedded within and can alert the spiritual senses to God’s Presence.

But I only know God exists, and know some of His attributes. Enough to be able to worship Him albeit with very limited knowledge but absolute knowledge that He does exist.

The Prophets and Teachers come here to help us learn about God so we can be happy and live in peace and prosperity.

 

[Aupmanyav]

.. history reflects there have been many great Prophets Who have also been actively promoting the concept of God and taught us even how God prefers to be worshipped.

Prophecy is a farce, ravings of phychologically disturbed or a tool in the hands of charlatans to fool people. No one can predict events in the world.

So my inner senses ‘know’ God exists through all the Prophets and Messengers Who’s Words have the Holy Spirit of God embedded within and can alert the spiritual senses to God’s Presence.

The Prophets and Teachers come here to help us learn about God so we can be happy and live in peace and prosperity.

What are these inner senses? Your imagination or superstitions? The inner sense of many people does not say that.
What is the evidence that what your prophets/son of God/messengers/manifestations/mahdis say is true?
Prophets and teachers have been the reason for much cruelty and strife, therefore, poverty in the world. We would have been much better without them.

 

[Viker]

No. Too many gods. Some gods don't work well with others. There's too many types and definitions of gods. God implies there is only one in a possible list of thousands.

The type of gods I venerate are clearly not the same as a one "true" God™.

 

[1213]

They might believe they are worshiping a different God, but if there is only one true God, as I believe, and as the Bible says, then they are worshiping the same God and just calling that God something different.

Sorry, I think that is not the case, if they have contradictory definitions. For example, Bible God is a spirit and not like a man. If someone worships something that is a man and not a spirit, then they are not worshiping the same. Also, if the other's god says it is ok to murder, and the other says it is not ok to murder, it is not the same God.

 

[Jainarayan]

I really love that quote from the Rig Veda. Truth is one. The wise describe it in various ways. Whenever I pray or worship I have no image in my mind of God because I know then I would be worshipping the image created by my own mind and that is not God. So when I pray I just pray but don’t know. I may use the word God but beyond that I know nothing. And I think everyone is reaching out to that Entity but that we don’t acknowledge it and start judging one another and then wars when we are all doing the same thing but just ina different way.

That sounds very much like Deism, with the exception that most deists don't pray (though some do), believing that God doesn't interact in the world anymore, having created it and stepped back to let it run.

 

[F1fan]

I don't think people are worshiping the same, when the definitions are not the same.

Right. Theists don't worship any actual gods, they worship the ideas theie religion describes and defines. Even Christians and Muslims don;t agree with themselves on what God is and what God wants.

Even some Christians "worship" different God, because their definitions are not the same. This doesn't mean the definitions have to be exactly the same. It is understandable, if people have different amount of knowledge. The knowledge just should not be contradictory. If people have contradictory definitions, then they are not speaking of the same.

Right. If we all are friends with JIm we aren't describing Jim in different ways. Jim wouldn't tell me to kill infidels but them tell you to treat infidels with grace. Look at how Bahai insist no ordinary believer can communicate with God, but Jews, Christians, Muslims, Mormons, and JWs insist they can communicate with God.

 

[Spice]

That may very well be true and/or/in addition to the fact that all throughout recorded human history there have appeared Prophets, Messengers and Great Educators Who speak of a God and claim to bring teachings and guidance from God for our spiritual well being and development. So I think that although man may have initially looked up at the sun in awe and worshipped it, history reflects there have been many great Prophets Who have also been actively promoting the concept of God and taught us even how God prefers to be worshipped.

True. "Perhaps" it was an early prophet that redirected the attention to the moon and inspired humankind to seek more than self gratification. I feel God comes to us where we are, including the sending of prophets we're prepared to receive, to encourage us to continue moving forward.

 

[Quintessence]

So true! And that makes for fascinating discussion and the swapping of ideas. It also gives me great pause. As per another thread: What If I'm Wrong? LOL

I don't really ask that question anymore for questions of philosophy/religion because I don't view it as a matter of being "right" or "wrong" per se. In Druidry (and contemporary Paganism more broadly) there isn't any emphasis placed on dogmas or doctrines. Instead it is just more or less expected that your way of life (aka, religion/philosophy) changes over time as it needs to. So when I think about "what if I'm wrong?" I pretty much just shrug and go "it's not about the product, it's the process - is this working for me right now? Yes? Keep on keeping on. No? Change is inevitable and unavoidable; it's time has come."

I realize this approach absolutely does not work for and is directly counter the more dogmatic and doctrinal religions/philosophies out there. It is not for those who walk those paths, or who want some absolute, incontrovertible touchstone that "never" changes.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Say for example I pray to God to remove my difficulties and another prays to the God Who removes difficulties say by the name Ganesha. Apart from a name I see no difference in reality only maybe in outward practice. Aren’t we all approaching the same higher Reality?

IOW, "aren't the details of other people's religions unimportant, regardless of how important they say they are?"

 

[Spice]

Yes in general people worship the same God.
And that God is = "Own-Mind"

But, in very exceptional cases God worship Some-men / A-men / Amen!

Or "own-heart" -- something we feel with our very being has the power to give us aid.

 

[Quintessence]

I agree that we are all connected. But I believe diversity and uniqueness are prevalent in nature and the universe reflecting only really one God.

How is the universe the same when we see uniqueness and diversity everywhere?

Consider. If all the grains of the world were compared to one another, no two could be found to be identical and no two faces out of billions or trillions of people throughout all of human history are identical. These reflect uniqueness and diversity which to me is a proof God is one and unique not divided and scattered all throughout the universe.

I don't see the logic - I don't see why you conclude this uniqueness is proof of "oneness" instead of entirely the opposite - but fair enough. Your path is not mine to walk, and mine is obviously not for you either. Something about the gods being scattered throughout (and synonymous with) the universe and reality itself doesn't work for you. That's fine.

 

[Quintessence]

Right. Theists don't worship any actual gods, they worship the ideas theie religion describes and defines.

Excuse me?

This is like saying atheists don't reject any actual gods, they reject the ideas their atheism describers and defines (aka, they're really actually theists, somehow).

Sorry, just no. That language is always and necessarily a human construct doesn't negate the reality behind the words. If an atheist decides something isn't a god, it isn't a god for them, period. If a theist decides something is a god, it is a god for them, period.

 

[F1fan]

What do people pray to? They call it by different names but what actually is it they pray to?

This is what atheists ask believers.

Can anyone actually describe what it is they pray to I mean people who pray.

Not in my experience. They adopt religioius ideas through social learning and mimic behavior. Belief is not a reasoned conclusion that can be defended in open debate. Believers are often caught off guard with certain questions that demand evidence and coherent answers.

Isn’t it a mystical feeling that cannot be defined in words?

Euphoria is certainly part of the ritual experience. Mental states is something many Eastern practices work to attain. Most all humans feel awe and euphoria at times in life. It's felt when your team wins the big game. It's felt in church services. even looking at a sunset will induce awe and euphoria. We want to know why we feel that way and not all the time. Critical minds understand that activies and exercises induce euphoria, and it is the mind that creates them, not the object of attention.

If it is, then how would we know we are not praying to the same entity. Only outward forms and names separate us but inwardly how do we ‘know’ that we are all not praying to the same entity?

Theists have their experiences within their learned, cultual beliefs and rituals, and while the experiences are much the same the ideas are different.

 

[Spice]

There is no evidence of any higher reality, Ukraine (for Christians) and Gaza (for Muslims and Jews) prove it. But human surrender to superstitious beliefs is the same all the world over. Charlatans take advantage of it.

But God did not make those situations in Ukraine and Gaza. Man did. But God helps many mentally/spiritually get through it. And you are most definitely correct in that charlatans take advantage. Especially of those who believe with wavering faith.

 

[F1fan]

Excuse me?

This is like saying atheists don't reject any actual gods, they reject the ideas their atheism describers and defines (aka, they're really actually theists, somehow).

This is true. Atheists aren't rejecting actual gods, they are rejecting the claims believers make about their gods existing. We follow the evidence, and the fact is no gods are known to exist.

Sorry, just no. That language is always and necessarily a human construct doesn't negate the reality behind the words.

We critical thinkers are waiting for evidence that there is an actual reality, not just a tradition of belief.

If an atheist decides something isn't a god, it isn't a god for them, period.

God is a simple word and is well defined. Specific gods are where the compexity arises. Atheists apply the definition to the claims. If believers disagree what gods are then it's on them to figure it out and resolve their disagreement. Atheists are still waiting for evidence.

If a theist decides something is a god, it is a god for them, period.

For them, yes. Factually and objectively, no.

 

[chinu]

Or "own-heart" -- something we feel with our very being has the power to give us aid.

Yes, anything can give us aid.
Actually its not the thing that gives us aid, its our "Own-faith" in something that gives us aid.

 

[Spice]

I don't really ask that question anymore for questions of philosophy/religion because I don't view it as a matter of being "right" or "wrong" per se. In Druidry (and contemporary Paganism more broadly) there isn't any emphasis placed on dogmas or doctrines. Instead it is just more or less expected that your way of life (aka, religion/philosophy) changes over time as it needs to. So when I think about "what if I'm wrong?" I pretty much just shrug and go "it's not about the product, it's the process - is this working for me right now? Yes? Keep on keeping on. No? Change is inevitable and unavoidable; it's time has come."

I realize this approach absolutely does not work for and is directly counter the more dogmatic and doctrinal religions/philosophies out there. It is not for those who walk those paths, or who want some absolute, incontrovertible touchstone that "never" changes.

I'm right there with you. That's why I've been unaffiliated with any doctrine/dogma for 40 years. And during that time my beliefs have greatly evolved and my peace as increased dramatically. When the term Omnist hit social media I felt I had a place of belonging without boundaries. It has also been accepted among the traditional religiousist much better than no definitive label at all, which adds to my peace. LOL

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

God is a simple word and is well defined. Specific gods are where the compexity arises.

I disagree. I don't think "god" is well-defined at all. All those gods (and god-ajacent but non-god things) illustrate this.