Aren’t we all really worshipping the same God?

[Altfish]

No, I'm definitely not worshipping anything ... apart from perhaps The Fall's 3rd and 4th Albums

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

your metaphor starts by assuming that what is being observed is an actual singular thing. That is not how animism or polytheism generally works.

I feel the need to expand on this. The metaphoric plant/god cannot and does not exist in a vacuum. It must grow in soil, from which it extracts nutrients. It exists in an atmosphere, out of and into which it respires. It requires water. And so on.

Are these environmental factors the same as/part of the plant/deity? Are they "really" just part of a singular thing? I would submit the answer to be "NO."

Yes, they are part of the same world, the same ecosystem, the same solar system, the same galaxy, but is Planet Earth the same as/just a part of the Planet Jupiter? Are they the same as the parts of a flower?

And yes, I am pushing the metaphor to absurd extreme limits...

 

[Spice]

your metaphor starts by assuming that what is being observed is an actual singular thing. That is not how animism or polytheism generally works.

And that's why I stated "VERY simplistic", but I did try to show that the singular whole is not perceived by all. However, I don't believe that means there isn't one. "I" would think infinity must revert back to some singular something wherever infinity began which is pretty much an endless, unanswerable question for "infinity."

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

And that's why I stated "VERY simplistic", but I did try to show that the singular whole is not perceived by all. However, I don't believe that means there isn't one. "I" would think infinity must revert back to some singular something wherever infinity began which is pretty much an endless, unanswerable question for "infinity."

Interesting...I would conclude the exact opposite, diversity in infinity, rather than unity...

 

[Spice]

I feel the need to expand on this. The metaphoric plant/god cannot and does not exist in a vacuum. It must grow in soil, from which it extracts nutrients. It exists in an atmosphere, out of and into which it respires. It requires water. And so on.

Are these environmental factors the same as/part of the plant/deity? Are they "really" just part of a singular thing? I would submit the answer to be "NO."

Yes, they are part of the same world, the same ecosystem, the same solar system, the same galaxy, but is Planet Earth the same as/just a part of the Planet Jupiter? Are they the same as the parts of a flower?

And yes, I am pushing the metaphor to absurd extreme limits...

But think back 10s of thousands of years ago. Some humanoid was in awe of the sun and began "worshiping" it. Then someone comes along and notices a mysterious change in the moon that seemed to have a connection to many other things -- seasons, tides, etc. -- so in their awe, they begin to worship the moon. But they had no perception that the light of the moon was the same light coming from the sun.

We've come a long way, but probably no where near halfway to the truth of it all. But most are still in awe!

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

They might believe they are worshiping a different God, but if there is only one true God, as I believe, and as the Bible says, then they are worshiping the same God and just calling that God something different.

Or they're worshipping a different God and their beliefs are false.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

But think back 10s of thousands of years ago. Some humanoid was in awe of the sun and began "worshiping" it. Then someone comes along and notices a mysterious change in the moon that seemed to have a connection to many other things -- seasons, tides, etc. -- so in their awe, they begin to worship the moon. But they had no perception that the light of the moon was the same light coming from the sun.

We've come a long way, but probably no where near halfway to the truth of it all. But most are still in awe!

But the moon is not the sun...and although connected in ways we better understand today, the tides, seasons etc., are neither the moon nor the sun...nor the air, water or land...yes, there are similarities and shared characteristics, but many of these have only become clear as humans have more carefully investigated the world in which we live...

 

[Trailblazer]

Or they're worshipping a different God and their beliefs are false.

That is what I believe, but who am I to tell other people that?
I just did.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

That is what I believe, but who am I to tell other people that?
I just did.

And I'm here to tell you, you're wrong!

 

[Quintessence]

To add a slight but also not really tangent, there are two questions that intertwine in the ideas of this thread:

• How many are the gods?
• How many are the substance(s) of the universe?

They are related, but distinct questions as it is possible to answer each of them differently. One can be a substance monist but a polytheist, or a substance dualist and a monotheist, or a substance pluralist and a non-theist, and nay combination thereof.

 

[Spice]

But the moon is not the sun...and although connected in ways we better understand today, the tides, seasons etc., are neither the moon nor the sun...nor the air, water or land...yes, there are similarities and shared characteristics, but many of these have only become clear as humans have more carefully investigated the world in which we live...

My point exactly!

 

[Spice]

To add a slight but also not really tangent, there are two questions that intertwine in the ideas of this thread:

• How many are the gods?
• How many are the substance(s) of the universe?

They are related, but distinct questions as it is possible to answer each of them differently. One can be a substance monist but a polytheist, or a substance dualist and a monotheist, or a substance pluralist and a non-theist, and nay combination thereof.

So true! And that makes for fascinating discussion and the swapping of ideas. It also gives me great pause. As per another thread: What If I'm Wrong? LOL

 

[CG Didymus]

What do people pray to? They call it by different names but what actually is it they pray to? Can anyone actually describe what it is they pray to I mean people who pray. Isn’t it a mystical feeling that cannot be defined in words? If it is, then how would we know we are not praying to the same entity. Only outward forms and names separate us but inwardly how do we ‘know’ that we are all not praying to the same entity?

How about those Christians that pray to Jesus? Believing that he is God? To you, as a Baha'i, you believe that is a false belief. Yet, they feel pretty good afterwards and are probably confident that Jesus will answer their prayer... God willing.

Then there were those that prayed and worshipped the God Baal. I've asked Baha'is about this before. The Bible called Baal a false God, and the God of the children of Israel had Elijah kill the prophets of Baal. So no, those that prayed and worshipped Baal were not worshipping the same God as the Jews did.

Then what about a man that prayed and worshipped a fertility Goddess? Was his prayer answered when his wife bore him a son? I hope you believe that "no". This Goddess was not real. Although, that guy probably believed she was.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I believe so. The Rig Veda, the oldest and one of the most sacred Hindu scriptures says ekam sadviprāh bahudha vadanti sat=truth [is], ekam=one only, vipraaha=the enlightened/wise, bahudhaa=in various ways/by many names, vadanti=describe. Truth is one. The wise describe it in various ways (Sanskrit is highly inflected and completely freeform).

However, there is a caveat, a big "but". Not everyone sees this One God in the same way, nor do they worship Him/Her/It the same way, or even "correctly" according to those of different beliefs. There's a Hindu saying that God appears to the believer the way the believer wishes God to appear. I consider myself a monist: there is only one "Thing"; and a soft polytheist: God takes the form I need to see at particular times.

My own belief is: worship God in any way that works for you, however you see Him/Her/It, because God takes many forms and names. Just don't tell me my way is wrong, or coerce me into worshiping your version of God in your way. I won't do the same. What I think of others' beliefs, I generally keep to myself.

I really love that quote from the Rig Veda. Truth is one. The wise describe it in various ways. Whenever I pray or worship I have no image in my mind of God because I know then I would be worshipping the image created by my own mind and that is not God. So when I pray I just pray but don’t know. I may use the word God but beyond that I know nothing. And I think everyone is reaching out to that Entity but that we don’t acknowledge it and start judging one another and then wars when we are all doing the same thing but just ina different way.

 

[chinu]

In the world today many people worship in different ways and using different names but aren’t they all really praying to the same one God or Reality? Explain why or why not you agree or disagree. This thread is mainly for those who worship some God but anyone may comment.

Yes in general people worship the same God.
And that God is = "Own-Mind"

But, in very exceptional cases God worship Some-men / A-men / Amen!

 

[loverofhumanity]

Explain to us polytheists, then, how everything in the universe is actually somehow the same. Start with these conundrums:

• Explain to us how worship of my parents is somehow worshiping your parents.
• Explain to us how worship of Sun is somehow worshiping Rain.
• Explain to us how worship of Love if somehow worship of War.

The whole monotheist schtick that denies that our gods are gods in the first place makes a lot more sense than what you are trying to propose here.

I agree that we are all connected. But I believe diversity and uniqueness are prevalent in nature and the universe reflecting only really one God.

How is the universe the same when we see uniqueness and diversity everywhere?

Consider. If all the grains of the world were compared to one another, no two could be found to be identical and no two faces out of billions or trillions of people throughout all of human history are identical. These reflect uniqueness and diversity which to me is a proof God is one and unique not divided and scattered all throughout the universe.

 

[loverofhumanity]

People pray to many things. Different deities, ancestors, intermediaries, etc.

Depends on the person, depends on the prayer.

This depends greatly on the prayer and who its directed to. A prayer to Hanuman does not feel the same as a prayer to Shiva.

How would a person know the opposite?

Because some of us pray to multiple entities, and get very different results.

Say for example I pray to God to remove my difficulties and another prays to the God Who removes difficulties say by the name Ganesha. Apart from a name I see no difference in reality only maybe in outward practice. Aren’t we all approaching the same higher Reality?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Aren’t we all approaching the same higher Reality?

There is no evidence of any higher reality, Ukraine (for Christians) and Gaza (for Muslims and Jews) prove it. But human surrender to superstitious beliefs is the same all the world over. Charlatans take advantage of it.

Consider. If all the grains of the world were compared to one another, no two could be found to be identical and no two faces out of billions or trillions of people throughout all of human history are identical. These reflect uniqueness and diversity which to me is a proof God is one and unique not divided and scattered all throughout the universe.

That is the work of evolution, DNA. How does one God or many come into it?

 

[loverofhumanity]

But think back 10s of thousands of years ago. Some humanoid was in awe of the sun and began "worshiping" it. Then someone comes along and notices a mysterious change in the moon that seemed to have a connection to many other things -- seasons, tides, etc. -- so in their awe, they begin to worship the moon. But they had no perception that the light of the moon was the same light coming from the sun.

We've come a long way, but probably no where near halfway to the truth of it all. But most are still in awe!

That may very well be true and/or/in addition to the fact that all throughout recorded human history there have appeared Prophets, Messengers and Great Educators Who speak of a God and claim to bring teachings and guidance from God for our spiritual well being and development. So I think that although man may have initially looked up at the sun in awe and worshipped it, history reflects there have been many great Prophets Who have also been actively promoting the concept of God and taught us even how God prefers to be worshipped.

 

[loverofhumanity]

There is no evidence of any higher reality, Ukraine (for Christians) and Gaza (for Muslims and Jews) prove it. But human surrender to superstitious beliefs is the same all the world over. Charlatans take advantage of it.

That is the work of evolution, DNA. How does one God or many come into it?

I agree that there is too much superstition in the name of religion but things like the human body and nature reflect signs of an unfathomable and unparalleled Intelligence.