Aren’t we all really worshipping the same God?

[TransmutingSoul]

So, it all hinges on whether or not Baha'u'llah is who he says he is. Okay, let's discuss... No, no. No discussing. No debate. It is clear and evident he is God's prophet. Why? Because his mission, his character, his writings. I know that's such "solid" evidence, but can we discuss and debate about that just a little?

For years we have offered discussion on the Person of Baha’u’llah as the proof.

How much do you know about the person and lives of the Bab and Baha'u'llah. Have you really tried to determine if they are truthful and trustworthy?

What is to debate about our due diligence in determining justice? Is not justice a responsibility of our own heart?

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

How do you believers solve this problem of so much disagreement?

We don't.

 

[Trailblazer]

How much do you know about the person and lives of the Bab and Baha'u'llah. Have you really tried to determine if they are truthful and trustworthy?

There are only so many hours in a day. How would CG have time to look into the person and lives of the Bab and Baha'u'llah?
He is too busy looking at the Bible and all the other 'older' religions.

 

[F1fan]

For years we have offered discussion on the Person of Baha’u’llah as the proof.

Religious personalities are never proof of anything. The issue is if the claims are true, and that is why it's evidence that is crucial.

How much do you know about the person and lives of the Bab and Baha'u'llah. Have you really tried to determine if they are truthful and trustworthy?

There are sincere people who are delusional. So this is why we examine the claims, and the evidence, if any. Thus far the Baha'i claims are not believable.

 

[idea]

I consider that God tests His servants with both reward and punishment. One should not build their faith on either of these.

Self and faith do not mix very well.

Regards Tony

Everything happens through natural cause and effects. It isn’t a test of following God, its a test of survival. Social skills and tribalism work to some extent, but the self chooses the tribe, the self chooses its group.

 

[CG Didymus]

Religious personalities are never proof of anything. The issue is if the claims are true, and that is why it's evidence that is crucial.

There are sincere people who are delusional. So this is why we examine the claims, and the evidence, if any. Thus far the Baha'i claims are not believable.

The Baha'i Faith is meaningless unless it can get a majority of the people in the world to believe that their prophet is the return of everybody ever promised in any Scripture to return. TB acts as if I "study" the Bible and the other Scriptures? I do a quick search and find things that contradict their claims. But there's probably going to be claims made by every religion that can easily be found to contradict science, reason, logic and the beliefs of other religions. So, what do we need? Proof. Evidence. They got none. Oh yeah, of course that thing about "his mission, his character and his writings."

But does their religion sound good? Does it work for them? Yeah. Peace and harmony and everybody loving each other sounds great. But how well is it working for them? I was around Baha'is for three years, and they had the same problems as any "organized" religion The main one being that a large percentage of their members don't participate. But I think it would be worse if they did.

They have a "feast" every 19 days. What if a town had several hundred Baha'is. Where they going to meet? What about in a large city where they could someday have several thousand Baha'is? Then what if a whole city was Baha'i? Are the nine Baha'is elected to be on the Spiritual Assembly of that city really going to be able to handle it? Because they are not only a religion. They are going to be the governing system too. They are just waiting for this "old world" system to fall apart, and then supposedly they'll be there with "God's" government and laws... all ready to take over and make the world one happy place.

Yeah, it sounds good... but can it work? I'd like to hear what they have to say, but I don't know if they even know. Like their plan for global disarmament, presto, all the nations are going to agree to get rid of all their weapons.

This thread would be a major step for them. But can they show the world that there only one God and all people have been praying to and worshipping that same one God just not realizing it? But that's not the only thing. They got to prove there is even a God. So far, they haven't been able to even do that.

Maybe a few dozen more threads asking some variation of these same questions will do the trick. And then a few more times saying, "And the proof is his mission, his character and his writings."

 

[loverofhumanity]

The Baha'i Faith is meaningless unless it can get a majority of the people in the world to believe that their prophet is the return of everybody ever promised in any Scripture to return. TB acts as if I "study" the Bible and the other Scriptures? I do a quick search and find things that contradict their claims. But there's probably going to be claims made by every religion that can easily be found to contradict science, reason, logic and the beliefs of other religions. So, what do we need? Proof. Evidence. They got none. Oh yeah, of course that thing about "his mission, his character and his writings."

But does their religion sound good? Does it work for them? Yeah. Peace and harmony and everybody loving each other sounds great. But how well is it working for them? I was around Baha'is for three years, and they had the same problems as any "organized" religion The main one being that a large percentage of their members don't participate. But I think it would be worse if they did.

They have a "feast" every 19 days. What if a town had several hundred Baha'is. Where they going to meet? What about in a large city where they could someday have several thousand Baha'is? Then what if a whole city was Baha'i? Are the nine Baha'is elected to be on the Spiritual Assembly of that city really going to be able to handle it? Because they are not only a religion. They are going to be the governing system too. They are just waiting for this "old world" system to fall apart, and then supposedly they'll be there with "God's" government and laws... all ready to take over and make the world one happy place.

Yeah, it sounds good... but can it work? I'd like to hear what they have to say, but I don't know if they even know. Like their plan for global disarmament, presto, all the nations are going to agree to get rid of all their weapons.

This thread would be a major step for them. But can they show the world that there only one God and all people have been praying to and worshipping that same one God just not realizing it? But that's not the only thing. They got to prove there is even a God. So far, they haven't been able to even do that.

Maybe a few dozen more threads asking some variation of these same questions will do the trick. And then a few more times saying, "And the proof is his mission, his character and his writings."

I don’t know what you’re getting at but I personally think that whatever ‘higher Being or Reality’ religious people pray to, it all seems to be the same mystical experience that everyone is experiencing except outwardly they express their worship differently. Some sit, others bow, others prostate while some pray to Christ, or Allah or Jehovah or Buddha or Krishna and so on. But inwardly aren’t they basically all doing the same thing?

Asking for health? Or prosperity?. Or to help solve a problem? All religionists do all these things. So aren’t they all inwardly addressing one and the same one Reality or God or Higher Intellect? It just seems way too much of a coincidence. It all looks the same to me only outwardly different.

Buddhists pray to ’something’. Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Zoroastrians, Christians all pray to this ‘something’. What it is nobody knows except it is described as loving, merciful, compassionate and wants what is best for us but apart from a mystical experience none can describe in words what it is they are actually praying to because it’s a mystery to everyone yet they know it exists through inner perceptions not through the outward senses. I believe we are all connecting to the same Reality just that we aren’t aware of it.

Unfortunately the ego takes over then and we say things like the sun of Monday is true but the sun of Tuesday is false. This is the spiritual condition of those who worship names. But to those who worship truth all the days of the week have but one sun.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I'm saying the Bahai explanation of the Quran would make God into a deceiver.

God is Great. Only us people do that but God is perfect.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Yes, there is an "idea", a concept of a God and people are told it is real and to believe in it and to pray and worship it. But are those "ideas" and concepts all the same? No. If they are all different, can they all be real? Do any of them have to be real? To accomplish their purpose, I don't think they have to be real.

A religious leader or prophet says, "The Great Being in the Sky has spoken. He wants us to worship and praise him and build him a temple. He has given us these laws to live by and says that he wants you to give him 10% of your earnings to him. He has entrusted me to be the keeper of all that is collected until which time he comes to get them."

How many religions do that or something similar? An invisible God that only the prophets can speak to... that gives the people laws and has the people give him offerings or sacrifices?

For me the simplest explanation is still that each people and culture created their own Gods and religion to suit them. Compared to some other religion in some other culture, it's probably going to be different. And what do we see? We see those differences.

One explanation used by some religions is that they are the one true religion that believes in the one true God... all the others are false and those Gods aren't real.

Some religions say that one or more of the other religions are true but then have gotten a few things wrong. So, their prophet was sent by God to correct those misunderstandings.

Baha'is are the extreme of that. They say that most all the religions were true and the only reason there are "apparent" contradictions is because the people misinterpreted things and added in some of their own ideas into the original teachings of the religion.

For Baha'is that settles the confusion. The claim is that "originally" all the prophets came with a true and pure message from the one true God. Then people messed it up. Naturally, it is the Baha'is that tell us what is true and false about those other religions.

So, for a Baha'i, since they believe there is only one true God, then all these old religions must have come from that one true God. Just because people describe that God a little different and call him by another name, that doesn't mean it's a different God. Sure, great for Baha'is... But does the reality of what we see in the beliefs of the different religions support it?

Why not discuss it and debate it? As we know, that's not a Baha'i strength. They are good at claiming things... just not so good at showing evidence that supports their claims.

Again, the intent of LH is to get us all to love each other and accept each other's beliefs as true. Why fight and quibble over beliefs? But, ultimately, the only true belief, because it is the newest and the only one that hasn't been messed up by people, is theirs, the Baha'i Faith. It is the only one that has the truth needed for today. Or so they say.

Okay, let's discuss it. Let's debate about it. Oh yeah, we've been trying to do that. And they've already told us. They are right, because Baha'u'llah said so. And what he said came from the all-knowing, invisible God that we can believe is real. Why? Because he said so.

So, it all hinges on whether or not Baha'u'llah is who he says he is. Okay, let's discuss... No, no. No discussing. No debate. It is clear and evident he is God's prophet. Why? Because his mission, his character, his writings. I know that's such "solid" evidence, but can we discuss and debate about that just a little?

Well then if you want to debate about it that’s fine but you’ll have to start another thread as this one is about whether unknowingly all humanity is praying to the same God or Reality without realising it. But sure if you want to discuss about Baha’u’llah then please create another thread.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Unfortunately the ego takes over then and we say things like the sun of Monday is true but the sun of Tuesday is false. This is the spiritual condition of those who worship names. But to those who worship truth all the days of the week have but one sun.

Even insisting upon one God is ego (because that is what your messenger said). What is wrong with a hundred Gods and Goddesses (as if anyone knows)?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Even insisting upon one God is ego (because that is what your messenger said). What is wrong with a hundred Gods and Goddesses (as if anyone knows)?

Whatever we pray to, I believe it is the same reality only we think that we are praying to different gods.

 

[1213]

What makes the New Testament true? What makes it more valid than the Old Testament? Jews don't recognize the NT, so are Jews wrong just because Christians believe in the NT stories about Jesus?

I think OT is as valid as NT. NT is based on the OT. If Jews don't recognize NT, I don't think they then recognize OT either. If Jews really believe what is said in OT, I don't think they are wrong.

And what about the Quran, that tells us a different story, so maybe Christians are wrong and Muslims correct. And then we have Mormons, maybe their Bible is true and you dead wrong.

Quran says we should believe Jesus. So, I don't see how Christians could be wrong, if they do so.

“…The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah… …believe in Allah and His messengers…”
Quran 4:171, Surat An-Nisa' [4:171] - The Noble Qur'an - القرآن الكريم

Maybe it's you that has things wrong? How would you know?

By reasoning. If you think I am wrong in something, please tell in what I am wrong.

If any sort of God exists how did it allow so much confusion, false prophets, false verisions, false offshoots, etc? There's no evidence to resolve these to a conclusion that will settle the matter.

God gave freedom to people. I think it is a great gift. Unfortunately it can lead to confusion, when people don't want to remain in truth.

To my mind the lack of evidence suggests non-belief in Gods is the rational conclusion.

I think we have lot of evidence for Bible God.
1. The Bible.
2. And life and this world as told in the Bible.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Unfortunately the ego takes over then and we say things like the sun of Monday is true but the sun of Tuesday is false. This is the spiritual condition of those who worship names. But to those who worship truth all the days of the week have but one sun.

I see way more ego in your position: "everyone worships my God, even if they don't realize it."

 

[loverofhumanity]

I see way more ego in your position: "everyone worships my God, even if they don't realize it."

I’m asking the question whether what we are all worshipping is the same entity or not. It’s for the forum to say what they think.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I’m asking the question whether what we are all worshipping is the same entity or not. It’s for the forum to say what they think.

That's how you started the thread, but you've given your own answer many times since then.

Do you at least see where I'm coming from?

 

[loverofhumanity]

We all have our own view.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

We all have our own view.

And my view is that there's a lot of ego and condescension in the dismissal of differences needed to say "we all believe in the same god."

But I also see how this approach would be useful for proselytizing. Is that what attracted you to it?

 

[Link]

Salam

On this topic, doesn't Elijah mean "My God is Yahweh"? The Quran mentions that he said "Do you pray to Baal and leave the best of Creators?"

Baal was a name for the Creator in a different culture. The same God. But the concepts varied drastically, that Elyas (a) was named and sent to call people back to the true Creator who is the best of all possible Creators to be described.

From another angle. The Quran does tell polytheists that we can find unity in that we worship the same God.

So both angles are correct. It depends what you mean and for what purpose.

 

[loverofhumanity]

And my view is that there's a lot of ego and condescension in the dismissal of differences needed to say "we all believe in the same god."

But I also see how this approach would be useful for proselytizing. Is that what attracted you to it?

Theres nothing what you’re reading into it. I asked an honest question nothing more but take it as you will.

 

[F1fan]

Yeah, it sounds good... but can it work? I'd like to hear what they have to say, but I don't know if they even know. Like their plan for global disarmament, presto, all the nations are going to agree to get rid of all their weapons.

Their ideal can work in a small community and that's about it. They have a naive attitude and have no solutions how to deal with the many human problems that are inevitable in a large society. They seem to expect humans to exist like billions of cows, who just wander around and mind their own business. Human psychology just isn't that simple. They are right about education, that there should be greater emphasis on teaching children, but it should be reasoning skill, not religious dogma.

This thread would be a major step for them. But can they show the world that there only one God and all people have been praying to and worshipping that same one God just not realizing it? But that's not the only thing. They got to prove there is even a God. So far, they haven't been able to even do that.

No religion has. It hasn't been a dilemma for the masses who get conditioned by their societies to believe in whatever religious framework they are exposed to. Citizens acquire language and customs just by consequences of being born in a certain place, and this tends to include some form of religion. Baha'i just don't have the cultural footprint to get more and more members. Islam is perhaps the most successful in growth as influence grows as the ideas spread.

Maybe a few dozen more threads asking some variation of these same questions will do the trick. And then a few more times saying, "And the proof is his mission, his character and his writings."

I don't see evidence being crucial to religions spreading. It's a social phenomenon that has to offer some sort of meaning rather than answers.