Here is a general public oriented article discussing using Geomagnetism in Archeological studies.
Old testament battles confirmed in new study – DW – 10/31/2022
Old testament battles confirmed in new study – DW – 10/31/2022
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Article on using Geomagnetism in Archeological dating
- Thread starter Shaul
- Start date
mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
So we are in debates. What do you want to debate?
Altfish
Veteran Member
Is it an article?
mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
Yeah, I have already read about it.
Whether or not the Old -Testament is the word of God?
mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
That is a question of in jargon axiomatic assumptions. So there are several possible answers.
- Yes
- No
- Don't know
- Don't care
- Do you want to see a movie?
- Find one yourself
Archaeomagnetism has been all the rage in Israeli archeological research the last year (seriously, I must have heard about it like ten times from different archeologists), and rightfully so, I think. The article in the OP is referring to research by Yoav Vaknin, an Israeli PhD student who made several major breakthroughs in the field thanks to his decision to tour archeological sites around Israel and date destruction layers. At last, mysterious destruction layers all over Israel could be connected to some famous events throughout history.
Is this junk science or not?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Did the OP read the article? It confirmed a battle by a pharaoh fought a battle in about 900 BC according to Egyptian records, not the Bible. If anything it refutes the Bible and says that Egyptian records are correct:
"
Pharaoh Shoshenq may not have been bluffing after all
Originally, historians doubted whether Pharaoh Shoshenq I actually conquered the Levant with force around 900 B.C.
"Most historians think Shoshenq didn’t destroy anything when he invaded the Levant — instead they think Judean cities paid him to go away so he wouldn’t destroy anything," Vaknin said.
However, with the aid of the new archaeomagnetic dating method, Vaknin said the Pharaoh may have been telling the truth about his destructive tendencies after all.
Vaknin studied evidence of destruction in the Judean city Tel Beth-Shean. Excavators of the site originally suggested the city was destroyed sometime around 830 B.C. In the bible, this matches with a military campaign into the Kingdom of Judah led by Hazael, King of Aram Damascus.
Vaknin took samples of bricks from Tel Beth-Shean that were burned in some sort of fire. The geomagnetic data he was able to excavate from the samples suggests the city was actually destroyed eighty years earlier, around 900 B.C.
"This ruled out destruction by King Hazael. Instead, the timing of the fire does correspond with Shoshenq’s campaign," Vaknin said.
Vaknin and his co-authors say their work doesn’t prove that Shoshenq definitely destroyed Beth-Shean. Rather, they say, it provides an example of how archaeomagnetic dating can help improve understanding of when historical events took place and contribute to ongoing debates about the chronology of the rulers of Israel and Judah."
The title is click bait. The article does not agree with it.
"
Pharaoh Shoshenq may not have been bluffing after all
Originally, historians doubted whether Pharaoh Shoshenq I actually conquered the Levant with force around 900 B.C.
"Most historians think Shoshenq didn’t destroy anything when he invaded the Levant — instead they think Judean cities paid him to go away so he wouldn’t destroy anything," Vaknin said.
However, with the aid of the new archaeomagnetic dating method, Vaknin said the Pharaoh may have been telling the truth about his destructive tendencies after all.
Vaknin studied evidence of destruction in the Judean city Tel Beth-Shean. Excavators of the site originally suggested the city was destroyed sometime around 830 B.C. In the bible, this matches with a military campaign into the Kingdom of Judah led by Hazael, King of Aram Damascus.
Vaknin took samples of bricks from Tel Beth-Shean that were burned in some sort of fire. The geomagnetic data he was able to excavate from the samples suggests the city was actually destroyed eighty years earlier, around 900 B.C.
"This ruled out destruction by King Hazael. Instead, the timing of the fire does correspond with Shoshenq’s campaign," Vaknin said.
Vaknin and his co-authors say their work doesn’t prove that Shoshenq definitely destroyed Beth-Shean. Rather, they say, it provides an example of how archaeomagnetic dating can help improve understanding of when historical events took place and contribute to ongoing debates about the chronology of the rulers of Israel and Judah."
The title is click bait. The article does not agree with it.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Definitely not junk science.
mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
I am not a scientist, but the actual method used makes sense. But it has to be used in context as the article points out. Why do you ask?
It's not junk science at all.
First of all, I didn't mention anything about the Bible. Second, if you read the part you yourself quote it says "their work doesn't prove that Shoshenq definitely destroyed Beth-Shean." Third, none of this precludes the possibility that Beth-Shean was destroyed on two different occasions after being rebuilt. Fourth, the debate is whether archaeomagnetic dating is valid or not.
The title of this thread matches the article.
Is this your opinion about Geomagnetism as a concept or as a currently fully developed and useful tool?
Is it ready as a practical tool or does it need further development to be useful and practical?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Yes, the title of the thread matches the article.
It is not junk science. The article does not go into detail so I can give you some. The magnetic poles of the Earth roam a bit. You have probably heard of this. By using various dating techniques the locations of the poles have been well tracked. As this article pointed out high temps can cause bricks to lock in the direction to magnetic north at the time of the fire. By carefully noting the bricks orientation it can be taken to a lab and the direction of the magnetic field within it can be measured. That direction is matched to the records of where the poles have been and that will give a time of the event.
Any questions?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
It appears to be, but why ask any of us? None of us are experts in the field. I can give you a rough idea of how it works and that is all.
It's not my opinion. I'm an archeology student. Several big name archeologists here in Israel are accepting the method as a game-changer in dating methodology. The method, by the way, was not invented by Vaknin. It's a geological method related to dating things on earth. He just started the big project of using the method to date destruction layers all over Israel. It's possible he refined it somehow along the way.
The method is essentially based on two things: Magnetic fields of destruction layers whose wavelength 'froze' during fires and other destruction layers whose dates are known because of other factors, such as ancient texts. Once the magnetic wavelength of the dated destruction layers are pinpointed, other sites can be checked to see if their magnetic fields 'froze' at the same range.
I can't tell you if it's fully developed, but as various excavation managers all over Israel (to my knowledge, at least from the Upper Galilee to Jerusalem) are bringing in palaeomagnetism experts to measure destruction layers, I would say it's far past simply a concept.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
I know of at least two factors necessary to make it valid. They have to know that the material was in situ. In other words that it had not been moved since the fire. Second one would have to have a very accurate record of its orientation before sending it to the lab. If the orientation is recorded improperly it is the same as if someone moved the sample.
Jose Fly
Fisker of men
Who here is qualified to make that assessment?