As religious or spiritual, would u blame a homeless person for committing a crime of desperation?

[Spirosmav]

Would you classify homeless as sociopathic if the individual was desperate enough to commit a minor crime to save their life from the elements? If an emergency winter shelter reached maximum capacity, leaving the homeless in below freezing temperatures, what would be their choice? Unfortunately this is a dilemma that many of the homeless face. During the financial crisis, many former well to do professionals found themselves committing minor crimes just to survive.

Excuse unedited grammar and broken sentences




Here are a few Links below:

Hungry homeless man gets arrested intentionally

Homeless and hungry man prefers a jail cell

A fifth of all homeless people have committed a crime to get off the streets



Homeless man holds up bank for $1 so he can go to jail and get medical attention | Daily Mail Online



'I asked to go to jail, rather than stay homeless'



Police: Homeless man breaks glass door, asks to go to jail



Homeless Harrisburg man gets prison term for 'crime of desperation'

Homeless man asks judge to send him to prison for birthday 'so he can wake up somewhere warm'

 

[Twilight Hue]

Would you classify homeless as sociopathic if the individual was desperate enough to commit a minor crime to save their life from the elements? If an emergency winter shelter reached maximum capacity, leaving the homeless in below freezing temperatures, what would be their choice? Unfortunately this is a dilemma that many of the homeless face. During the financial crisis, many former well to do professionals found themselves committing minor crimes just to survive.

Excuse unedited grammar and broken sentences




Here are a few Links below:

Hungry homeless man gets arrested intentionally

Homeless and hungry man prefers a jail cell

A fifth of all homeless people have committed a crime to get off the streets



Homeless man holds up bank for $1 so he can go to jail and get medical attention | Daily Mail Online



'I asked to go to jail, rather than stay homeless'



Police: Homeless man breaks glass door, asks to go to jail



Homeless Harrisburg man gets prison term for 'crime of desperation'

Homeless man asks judge to send him to prison for birthday 'so he can wake up somewhere warm'

It's one of the saddest aspects of a first world nation that could easily feed and arguably house every single person that is genuinely down and out of their luck.

Seems "Hotel Alcatraz" would be the only recourse for homeless person especially in inclement weather and conditions where jail is far better than being free. Of course having a rap sheet exasperates the issue even further.

I think it says a lot for how we run and regulate Society.

 

[WalterTrull]

I think it says a lot for how we run and regulate Society.

I think it says a lot that we consider these things. Baby steps I guess.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Of course not. It's society's fault for being cruel and unjust enough to have people living in such situations in the first place. It's beyond shameful. It's evil. Sadly, homeless people also tend to be punished with outlandish prison sentences for petty crimes while rich people who destroy the lives of millions get a light slap on the hand, if anything at all.

 

[sun rise]

It's one of the saddest aspects of a first world nation that could easily feed and arguably house every single person that is genuinely down and out of their luck.

We throw out enough food to end hunger if we just redistributed what we already have. The same is true of clothing. There are groups that are doing this in various places and more are needed.

But in a more universal sense, the destruction of the middle class with many families unable to live on the minimum wage and a very few getting insanely rich beyond dreams of avarice has to end.

And no, I don't blame someone in such circumstances for trying to survive.

 

[stvdv]

Would you classify homeless as sociopathic if the individual was desperate enough to commit a minor crime to save their life from the elements?

At least the homeless man shows decent social skills; only committing "minor crime" and only for "primary sustenance"; not sociopathic at all. Presidents and bankers who commit major crimes they classify for being sociopathic [they only do it for prestige, power, money and control]
IMHO

 

[Twilight Hue]

We throw out enough food to end hunger if we just redistributed what we already have. The same is true of clothing. There are groups that are doing this in various places and more are needed.

But in a more universal sense, the destruction of the middle class with many families unable to live on the minimum wage and a very few getting insanely rich beyond dreams of avarice has to end.

And no, I don't blame someone in such circumstances for trying to survive.

I know a lot of it has to do with the regulatory climate brought about by the blanket legislation we see going on all the time. I really wish they would have provisions made where exemptions can be instituted to help out the hungry and downtrodden.

I remember also there was an excellent program involving inexpensive modular "cubicles" that could easily house was homeless and keep them warm in inclement weather.

Again, I would blame the regulatory climate for preventing it.

In most all cases involving hunger and homelessness the government is always the one to point the finger to and in some ways being the cause for not thinking of viable approachable solutions where people get into and find themselves in these types of situations.

I don't know why but we don't think in terms of individuality when it comes to legislation only blanket policy where people get caught in the cracks and forgotten.

I'm sure there's quite a few restaurants out there and food companies that would love to distribute their excess (still good) food in helping homeless people have reasonably full bellies at night.

Housing could be accommodated as well. All one has to do is look at Japan and see how individual modular style alcoves provides a warm place to stay and sleep. Something like that could easily be instituted at minimal cost but the government just will not give the green light for these kind of things.

 

[allfoak]

In many places homelessness is a crime. Its called vagrancy. I have been arrested for being homeless.
Homeless people commit minor crimes everyday just to survive. Try and find a business that will let homeless people use their bathroom.
I am currently living in a tent in 30° weather. I am sick cold and without water.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I think it says a lot that we consider these things. Baby steps I guess.

It actually upsets me to see things like this in any first world country or nation.

There's homeless where I live who flop at a nearby car wash inside a group of bushes when the outside becomes habitable. I'm of the opinion a hobo camp doesn't have to be an eyesore with a little help and restore some dignity at least.

 

[WalterTrull]

It actually upsets me to see things like this in any first world country or nation.

There's homeless where I live who flop at a nearby car wash inside a group of bushes when the outside becomes habitable. I'm of the opinion a hobo camp doesn't have to be an eyesore with a little help and restore some dignity at least.

So... have you done anything to alleviate the situation? I must admit I haven't. Well, maybe a couple of donations to a half-way house. Reflecting upon it, - doesn't seem enough.

 

[Twilight Hue]

So... have you done anything to alleviate the situation? I must admit I haven't. Well, maybe a couple of donations to a half-way house. Reflecting upon it, - doesn't seem enough.

I'm about on par with you. I'm very skeptical of Charity so I only have a select few I donate to. I feel the best way atm would be to donate to Goodwill boxes and Salvation Army distribution centers which I think are good things. Also numerous soup kitchens always could use some donations. I prefer to physically donate items rather than money although I had donated money in the past.

There's not really anything the average smo-joe can do past charitable acts and I don't blame people if they can't donate much because of their own personal situation to stay afloat themselves.

I suppose it would help to write a letter to your Congressman but I fear that would be an ongoing endeavor that may never get addressed.

I think the best part would be to keep focusing attention and keeping people aware of the situation. If you're aware of something you're more likely to act on it I think. Also I think donating and contributing on a local level is more productive than on a national level because you get to see the results with your own eyes which in many cases is a good feeling when somebody gets out of the gutter knowing that your contribution helped some.

 

[oldbadger]

Would you classify homeless as sociopathic if the individual was desperate enough to commit a minor crime to save their life from the elements? If an emergency winter shelter reached maximum capacity, leaving the homeless in below freezing temperatures, what would be their choice? Unfortunately this is a dilemma that many of the homeless face. During the financial crisis, many former well to do professionals found themselves committing minor crimes just to survive.

Excuse unedited grammar and broken sentences




Here are a few Links below:

Hungry homeless man gets arrested intentionally

Homeless and hungry man prefers a jail cell

A fifth of all homeless people have committed a crime to get off the streets



Homeless man holds up bank for $1 so he can go to jail and get medical attention | Daily Mail Online



'I asked to go to jail, rather than stay homeless'



Police: Homeless man breaks glass door, asks to go to jail



Homeless Harrisburg man gets prison term for 'crime of desperation'

Homeless man asks judge to send him to prison for birthday 'so he can wake up somewhere warm'

Hello.....
Now.......
You ask a simple question, but then you think that us members need to attend a course of links before we would be able to answer this?


In the UK, one of our biggest Supermarket retailers used to issue a shop-theft report sheet to all its stores which had to be completed in the event that any shop-thief was detained.

By filling in this report the manager-of-day could distinguish more detail about how and why the theft was committed, together with any previous history or shop-bans that might be in existence.

Shop thefts are committed for many reasons, the motivations can vary from Need (hunger etc), Speed (excitement risk etc), Greed (explained), Peer pressure (fear of dismissal from a group), Challenge, Bravado, Intellectual arrogance, Anger etc etc and where hardship, hunger, desperation showed then the manager could make a few decisions. Where for instance a very elderly lady had taken some vegetables and a pie she might be invited to report to the services desk in future so that a sales assistant could help her with her selections, where a tramp had taken a bottle of cider he might be banned from the store but referred to a homeless support group, where an obvious drug dependent had stolen an expensive Scotch Whiskey he might just be banned......... the police are not called out to thefts under a certain value any more unless the thief was threatening or violent on confrontation. And so most retailers here do try to deter crimes rather than confront crimes.

By the way, if I was on the streets and hungry, and detained for shop crime I would hope to be taken to the police station where I would get a bed, food and warmth for the night.

Burglary and robbery are not petty crimes here, so no excuse for those is acceptable.

 

[oldbadger]

Of course not. It's society's fault for being cruel and unjust enough to have people living in such situations in the first place. It's beyond shameful. It's evil. Sadly, homeless people also tend to be punished with outlandish prison sentences for petty crimes while rich people who destroy the lives of millions get a light slap on the hand, if anything at all.

Exactly.
Over the years I have noticed the occasions when wealthy folks and professionals have boasted about (!) or been caught in their scams and clever tricks, some of these folks later showing extreme anger over reports of petty petty crimes....... we live in a world of hypocrisy, I'm afraid.

Over here we call it 'the rat race'!

 

[Twilight Hue]

Framlab proposes parasitic hexagonal pods to sleep New York's homeless

 

[Spirosmav]

Hello.....
Now.......
You ask a simple question, but then you think that us members need to attend a course of links before we would be able to answer this?


In the UK, one of our biggest Supermarket retailers used to issue a shop-theft report sheet to all its stores which had to be completed in the event that any shop-thief was detained.

By filling in this report the manager-of-day could distinguish more detail about how and why the theft was committed, together with any previous history or shop-bans that might be in existence.

Shop thefts are committed for many reasons, the motivations can vary from Need (hunger etc), Speed (excitement risk etc), Greed (explained), Peer pressure (fear of dismissal from a group), Challenge, Bravado, Intellectual arrogance, Anger etc etc and where hardship, hunger, desperation showed then the manager could make a few decisions. Where for instance a very elderly lady had taken some vegetables and a pie she might be invited to report to the services desk in future so that a sales assistant could help her with her selections, where a tramp had taken a bottle of cider he might be banned from the store but referred to a homeless support group, where an obvious drug dependent had stolen an expensive Scotch Whiskey he might just be banned......... the police are not called out to thefts under a certain value any more unless the thief was threatening or violent on confrontation. And so most retailers here do try to deter crimes rather than confront crimes.

By the way, if I was on the streets and hungry, and detained for shop crime I would hope to be taken to the police station where I would get a bed, food and warmth for the night.

Burglary and robbery are not petty crimes here, so no excuse for those is acceptable.

That is a pretty elaborate system the supermarket chain established. With England experiencing brexit and austerity, maybe the store can provide some statistical analysis

 

[Spirosmav]

Hello.....
Now.......
You ask a simple question, but then you think that us members need to attend a course of links before we would be able to answer this?


In the UK, one of our biggest Supermarket retailers used to issue a shop-theft report sheet to all its stores which had to be completed in the event that any shop-thief was detained.

By filling in this report the manager-of-day could distinguish more detail about how and why the theft was committed, together with any previous history or shop-bans that might be in existence.

Shop thefts are committed for many reasons, the motivations can vary from Need (hunger etc), Speed (excitement risk etc), Greed (explained), Peer pressure (fear of dismissal from a group), Challenge, Bravado, Intellectual arrogance, Anger etc etc and where hardship, hunger, desperation showed then the manager could make a few decisions. Where for instance a very elderly lady had taken some vegetables and a pie she might be invited to report to the services desk in future so that a sales assistant could help her with her selections, where a tramp had taken a bottle of cider he might be banned from the store but referred to a homeless support group, where an obvious drug dependent had stolen an expensive Scotch Whiskey he might just be banned......... the police are not called out to thefts under a certain value any more unless the thief was threatening or violent on confrontation. And so most retailers here do try to deter crimes rather than confront crimes.

By the way, if I was on the streets and hungry, and detained for shop crime I would hope to be taken to the police station where I would get a bed, food and warmth for the night.

Burglary and robbery are not petty crimes here, so no excuse for those is acceptable.

That is a pretty elaborate system the supermarket chain established. With England experiencing brexit and austerity, maybe the store can provide some statistical analysis

 

[oldbadger]

That is a pretty elaborate system the supermarket chain established. With England experiencing brexit and austerity, maybe the store can provide some statistical analysis

I cannot see how Brexit or Austerity would be any reason for that store to explain it's findings or its policies. But I can tell you that when properly trained thief catchers are working in such stores the most costly crimes detected tend to fall into the Greed brackets, not the need brackets. Need is a sandwich and milk carton, whereas Greed is £5000 value of spirits.

 

[oldbadger]

Framlab proposes parasitic hexagonal pods to sleep New York's homeless

....... these units are built with aluminium shells. Dreadful.
Aluminium is a deadly fire risk and killer, once it starts to combust. If you google Grefell Tower Fire you'll see what I mean. We have now ripped the aluminium cladding away from hundreds of High-Rise Tower Blocks all over the UK.

And the Planning, Building Inspection, Archictectural, Construction and Fire specialists here (in the UK) are supposed to be experts...... *winces*

 

[oldbadger]

Would you classify homeless as sociopathic if the individual was desperate enough to commit a minor crime to save their life from the elements?

I just remembered the Poor Laws of Moses and the Old Testament.

If these laws would still be in force today then we just wouldn't have a problem with poverty. And these laws don't talk about charity.... No No, they talk about each person's duty under the law.

Imagine shops and businesses being required to obey these laws, adapted to meet with their own trading styles. Shops would no longer be able to contaminate food before disposing of it, or to smash up products and items for scrapping...... they would have to put them out for the poor to gather.

Quite wonderful, these ancient and discarded old laws!

The desciptiions of each are written in modern terms but the original translations in English mean just the same....

THE POOR!
Well-to-do are required to lend to the poor (Ex. 22:24)
Not to demand from a poor man repayment of his debt, when the
creditor knows that he cannot pay, nor press him (Ex.22:24)
Not to exact a pledge from a debtor by force (Deut. 24:10)
Not to keep the pledge (tools etc) from its owner at the time when he needs it (Deut. 24:12)
Not to take a pledge from a widow (Deut. 24:17)
Leave corners of fields and orchards for the poor (Lev.19:9 Lev. 23:22)
Do not gather gleanings but leave them for the poor (Lev. 19:9)
Not to gather single grapes from the ground (Lev.19:10)
The second tithes in the 3rd and 6th sabbatical years are for the poor (Deut. 14:28-29)
Wealthy are obliged to subsidise a poor man (Deut. 15:7)
Everybody must support the poor according to their means (Deut. 15:11)
Forgotten sheaves or fruit must be left for the poor (Deut. 24:19 -20)
Imperfect vines of grapes to be left for the poor (Lev.19:10 Deut. 24:21))
Not to reap the entire field (Lev. 19:9; Lev. 23:22)
Not to return to take a forgotten sheaf (Deut. 24:19)
....and.....This applies to all fruit trees (Deut. 24:20)
Not to refrain from maintaining a poor man (Deut. 15:7)

 

[Spirosmav]

I just remembered the Poor Laws of Moses and the Old Testament.

If these laws would still be in force today then we just wouldn't have a problem with poverty. And these laws don't talk about charity.... No No, they talk about each person's duty under the law.

Imagine shops and businesses being required to obey these laws, adapted to meet with their own trading styles. Shops would no longer be able to contaminate food before disposing of it, or to smash up products and items for scrapping...... they would have to put them out for the poor to gather.

Quite wonderful, these ancient and discarded old laws!

The desciptiions of each are written in modern terms but the original translations in English mean just the same....

THE POOR!
Well-to-do are required to lend to the poor (Ex. 22:24)
Not to demand from a poor man repayment of his debt, when the
creditor knows that he cannot pay, nor press him (Ex.22:24)
Not to exact a pledge from a debtor by force (Deut. 24:10)
Not to keep the pledge (tools etc) from its owner at the time when he needs it (Deut. 24:12)
Not to take a pledge from a widow (Deut. 24:17)
Leave corners of fields and orchards for the poor (Lev.19:9 Lev. 23:22)
Do not gather gleanings but leave them for the poor (Lev. 19:9)
Not to gather single grapes from the ground (Lev.19:10)
The second tithes in the 3rd and 6th sabbatical years are for the poor (Deut. 14:28-29)
Wealthy are obliged to subsidise a poor man (Deut. 15:7)
Everybody must support the poor according to their means (Deut. 15:11)
Forgotten sheaves or fruit must be left for the poor (Deut. 24:19 -20)
Imperfect vines of grapes to be left for the poor (Lev.19:10 Deut. 24:21))
Not to reap the entire field (Lev. 19:9; Lev. 23:22)
Not to return to take a forgotten sheaf (Deut. 24:19)
....and.....This applies to all fruit trees (Deut. 24:20)
Not to refrain from maintaining a poor man (Deut. 15:7)

It makes sense. The alternative is always expensive