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Asatru/Heathenism Information Thread
- Thread starter Darkdale
- Start date
Darkdale
World Leader Pretend
Jensa said:
Well, that is actually one of the more contentious issues to date. I look at Loki as a recognition of mischief and misfortune, but the gods always used Loki's obstacles to their advantage. We should learn to do the same. Some of the neo-heathens (Norse-Wiccans and so forth) look at Loki as being evil, but there is no basis for reading dualism into Germanic religion. So to look at Loki as being evil is clearly incorrect. However, obstacles and misfortune are a part of life, and we must learn to make the best of things and to use everything to our advantage.
I think of Loki as the restless spirit - he can only see himself as having value when he is interfering with the lives of others. This is something that should not be admirable or duplicated.
Darkdale
World Leader Pretend
AlanGurvey said:
Well, I'm not sure what you mean by modern. There have always been myths about the afterlife, but again, there is no real concept of spirit. The afterlife is a very mythological place/idea. The superstition goes, that when we die we go to Helheim , the house of Hel, and land of the dead. Those that die in battle go to the houses of Odin & Freya, to prepare for Ragnarok (the final battle before the end of the universe and the death of the gods).
From what I can tell, common folk had no real concept of the afterlife in the Greek/Middle Eastern sense, as a place that you go to live forever. Helheim is thought of as the underworld, but specifically as the underground. You are buried into Helheim. Many modern, or neo-heathens, believe in an actual afterlife spent with the gods, but they have essentially adopted a Greek, or Christian, idea of dualism and the eternal life.
Zephyr
Moved on
I guess this is a bit more of an opinion question than anything, but...
I know a few Asatruar with different opinions on this issue. One feels that only those of Norse ancestry should really look into Asatru, while the others feel that it is really open to anyone. Where do you stand on this issue?
I know a few Asatruar with different opinions on this issue. One feels that only those of Norse ancestry should really look into Asatru, while the others feel that it is really open to anyone. Where do you stand on this issue?
Darkdale
World Leader Pretend
Zephyr said:
Well, this is a tricky one, because it brings up the problem of racism. I believe that Asatru is for people of Northern European decent. However, Heathenism has become quite broad and can include anyone that simply likes the morality, worldview, and lifestyle involved. I've met black, asian, indian, and hispanic folk who were more "heathen" than many of these neo-heathens and neo-nazis that we have to deal with (especially in the prison system, which is where they belong).
Here is the important thing, and the only reason why I would discourage people not of Germanic Heritage from getting involved with Asatru or Heathenism - and that is because each ethnicity has their own ancient, and beautiful religions. It would be disrespectful to their ancestors to encourage them to worship our gods, without first encouraging them to worship and honor the gods of their ancestors.
Asatru is an ancestral religion (this creates a problem for me - I'll explain in a second), so it appeals to people with an ancestral link to the old ways. Now the problem this creates, is that for the last 500 years (as far as I can tell) my family has been Christian. So, how do I justify dishonoring those relatives by worshipping a totally different religion... a religion they grew to believe was evil?
All I can say at this point, is that I am fixing their mistake. They left their own religion, at some point in history, for a foreign religion and a foreign (greek, roman, middle eastern) worldview. I am honoring them, by honoring where they came from. I also honor them by honoring my parents and grandparents, irrespective of religion.
Darkdale
World Leader Pretend
Zephyr said:
Yes.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/poe/index.htmThis is the best free resource I could find, however my own copy of the Eddas is fantastic. Poems of the Elder Edda, Rvised Edition, Translated by Patricia Terry.
Klaufi_Wodensson
Vinlandic Warrior
I have a question. I am descended of French, Italian, English, Scottish, and some sort of Germanic country (due to the fact that my brother and sister have blue eyes, and my brother has light hair). As you were saying why you discourage people of non-Germanic descent to follow Asatru or Heathenism, according to that, do I fall into the category of "Germanic"? My interpretation is that the French descended from the Gauls and Franks, who are Germanic, and the English from Angles, Saxons, and Jutes, and the Scottish from Picts and other Celts. In my view, I am Germanic in a sense. However, I would like a second, or third, opinion. I felt that I connected to Asatru, which is why I took it up. I agree that people of different cultures should follow the religion of their ancestors. How do you feel about my situation?
Herr Heinrich
Student of Mythology
You are definitely of Germanic descent my friend. Go on doin what yur doin. Also I have to say with your statement about worshiping the gods of your ancestors. I have been steadily moving towards that idea. I think it is also appropriate to worship the gods of the land in which you dwell. It seems to me that the gods only really have power within the culture that worships or worshiped them. The Irish have many gods specific to the land as did the continental Celts. I have a feeling that it is the strong belief over many years that gave the gods their "life" in the first place (if they exist. I have a feeling that they do).
Klaufi_Wodensson
Vinlandic Warrior
That is a big weight off my chest! I just wanted to make sure I was of Germanic descent, because I don't want to follow a belief system that is alien to my blood.
That is a good point about what gave the gods their life, and about their power. I have similar views. Although, living in America, worshipping the Gods of the land which I dwell in (namely the Christian God, if you count that as the "American" god, or the Native American gods) would conflict with worshipping the gods of my ancestors, although I do think I have a minute trace of Native American in me.
Herr Heinrich
Student of Mythology
Speaking of the Christian god. I see Christianity as irrelevant to this time and place. The middle eastern jewish culture it was born from is not really relevant to our time and culture I feel. Anyway that could cause a debate so I won't say further. About the Native American gods. I am pretty sure they feel that is an ancestral thing. It is kind of like trying to follow a Chinese religion without being chinese. It just doesn't work. I have been considering just leaving offerings in the woods for whatever gods or spirits might dwell in the land. I think that would be the safest approach. I want to move to Germany after college though. So at that point my options open up quite a bit. Anyway English=Anglo-Saxon=German. [youtube]j617mImHVvk[/youtube]
YouTube - The English are Germans The Welsh are real Britons
Also I may be wrong about the whole land thing because the Otherworld or Spirit Realm is supposed to transcend material time and space. So who knows?
Klaufi_Wodensson
Vinlandic Warrior
That is very interesting. Well I'm glad that I know for sure I am Germanic
I planned on moving to Germany as well! I'm teaching myself German with Rosetta Stone as well
Herr Heinrich
Student of Mythology
That is very interesting. Well I'm glad that I know for sure I am Germanic
How is Rosetta Stone? I have been considering asking for it for Christmas (my family is Catholic sadly). Also what part of Germany do you want to move to? Also you should study up on Denmark. You might like it there.
Klaufi_Wodensson
Vinlandic Warrior
Rosetta stone is a good program. My family is Catholic also. I'm not sure of what part, probably Thuringia or Saxony. That general area. Possibly Bavaria. Anywhere would be nice haha. Although I don't want to live in a big city or anything. I actually want to learn Danish or Norwegian, since they are very similar. And if I couldn't go to Germany, Norway was my next choice.
Herr Heinrich
Student of Mythology
Wow. You are my new best internet friend. Anyway Thueringen is pretty awesome looking. I like that it is mostly atheist. Bavaria and Schwabia are where my family comes from way back when. The only problem I have with Southern Germany is the fact that it is mostly Catholic. I am also starting to look into Switzerland. Their government intrigues me. Also they are the second happiest nation apparently. Right after Denmark. I want to have a low impact house in the woods near Muenchen preferably.
A Low Impact Woodland Home
Klaufi_Wodensson
Vinlandic Warrior
Haha thank you for the Friendship. I like Southern Germany because that is where the Alemanni settled, although the dialect in the South is different from the one I am learning on Rosetta Stone, so it would be hard understanding things there. I would love to have a house like that.
Herr Heinrich
Student of Mythology
Yeah Bairisch is interesting.
S' Boarische is a Grubbm vo Dialekt im Sidn vom daitschn Språchraum.Das Bairische ist eine Gruppe von Dialekten im Süden des deutschen Sprachraumes.
Serwus/Habèderè/Griaß Di/Grüß Gott, i bin/bî da Pèda und kumm/kimm vo Minga.Hallo/Servus/Grüß dich, ich bin Peter und ich komme aus München.
I also like Schwaebisch. It is the dialect in Baden-Wuerttemberg. There is a German cultural center not far from me that is a Swabian Hall. They speak that dialect. I love German dialects though. Being a teacher in Germany is really just a way to support myself whilst I continue to study German and it's history.
Klaufi_Wodensson
Vinlandic Warrior
I love the German language in general haha. My Step-Father speaks the Bavarian dialect (don't know what it's called), and he says there is less emphasis on the "ch" sound and the "v" sound of the w. You are going to be a teacher? What will you teach?