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Asatru in Popular Culture

Chakra

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Is there any place in a movie or game that resembles Asatru culture? I've seen a lot of Viking/Norse settings but I don't know if that is what Asatru is. Would you agree that LOTR and Skyrims have some components borrowed from Asatru culture/religion?

Thanks
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Is there any place in a movie or game that resembles Asatru culture? I've seen a lot of Viking/Norse settings but I don't know if that is what Asatru is. Would you agree that LOTR and Skyrims have some components borrowed from Asatru culture/religion?

Thanks

I actually answered your question in the other thread, as you were deleting it:
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3991026-post63.html

Short answer to your question: absolutely yes. :yes:
 

Chakra

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Thanks. I deleted it because I felt some people would get angry if I posted a random question in that forum.
 

Sees

Dragonslayer
Most of Disney as well :)

My favorite LOTR character being Gandalf by far...modeled on both Odin and an Odinsman simultaneously. In one of the books he says in so many words "all there truly is for us to decide is how to make the most of our days." This is very much central to the heart and soul of Ásatrú traditions. I said it a few times before even reading the words. It's reflected in the Hávamál that "the generous and brave live the best of lives, seldom do they harbor sorrow..." Luck is also mentioned often, it has a spiritual aspect beyond modern perception and is there interwoven in LOTR. Could probably do a huge list really.
 

Poeticus

| abhyAvartin |
Get on my level, brah:

images
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Gandalf is complex. The wanderer who gathers knowledge, imparts knowledge, keeps his true identity hidden, kind and grandfatherly at times, given to (justified) anger at other times. I am beginning to think that Tolkien was a medium polytheist. Consider how complex the ranks of the maiar and valar are. We've got not one, but two Lokis... Melkor and Anatar, both of whom were friends of the gods, but then turned wholly to evil doings and were cast out.. His staunch Catholicism gives me feeling of "the lady doth protest too much, methinks". No criticism of him, just an observation.
 

von bek

Well-Known Member
Most of Disney as well :)

My favorite LOTR character being Gandalf by far...modeled on both Odin and an Odinsman simultaneously. In one of the books he says in so many words "all there truly is for us to decide is how to make the most of our days." This is very much central to the heart and soul of Ásatrú traditions. I said it a few times before even reading the words. It's reflected in the Hávamál that "the generous and brave live the best of lives, seldom do they harbor sorrow..." Luck is also mentioned often, it has a spiritual aspect beyond modern perception and is there interwoven in LOTR. Could probably do a huge list really.

I read an excellent article once on Odin and LOTR. The author basically made the point that the good qualities of Odin were embodied in Gandalf while all of the more "sinister" traits of Odin were shifted to Sauron. Just as Odin had a magic ring that produced other rings, Sauron is the Lord of Rings, a master craftsman who doles them out to his faithful ones. Sauron's gifts are a curse, they bind you to his service. Also, the author makes much of Odin sacrificing an eye and that Tolkien frequently uses the image of a great Eye to signify Sauron. (Of course, I am in the camp that believes Peter Jackson took the "Eye of Sauron" too literally in the films. Reading the books, I never thought of the eye as anything more than a metaphor for the attention of Sauron.)

On the positive side, Gandalf like Odin is a wanderer on the earth and benefits those he comes into contact with. Both have a steed that is renowned for its speed. Both are magic users and both put a high premium on knowledge of magical artifacts. Both Gandalf and Odin are also obsessed with preparing for battle against the forces of darkness and chaos.

I could go on, but this should suffice as a taste.
 

Sees

Dragonslayer
I read an excellent article once on Odin and LOTR. The author basically made the point that the good qualities of Odin were embodied in Gandalf while all of the more "sinister" traits of Odin were shifted to Sauron. Just as Odin had a magic ring that produced other rings, Sauron is the Lord of Rings, a master craftsman who doles them out to his faithful ones. Sauron's gifts are a curse, they bind you to his service. Also, the author makes much of Odin sacrificing an eye and that Tolkien frequently uses the image of a great Eye to signify Sauron. (Of course, I am in the camp that believes Peter Jackson took the "Eye of Sauron" too literally in the films. Reading the books, I never thought of the eye as anything more than a metaphor for the attention of Sauron.)

On the positive side, Gandalf like Odin is a wanderer on the earth and benefits those he comes into contact with. Both have a steed that is renowned for its speed. Both are magic users and both put a high premium on knowledge of magical artifacts. Both Gandalf and Odin are also obsessed with preparing for battle against the forces of darkness and chaos.

I could go on, but this should suffice as a taste.

Thanks I'll have to go over it in depth, it's definitely a possible or even probable inspiration. A way to imbue the stories with good vs evil duality the audience is familiar with but is rather foreign to the old traditions. I love the films but there is some oddness here and there like the huge Evil Eye. :)
 

Sees

Dragonslayer
Gandalf is complex. The wanderer who gathers knowledge, imparts knowledge, keeps his true identity hidden, kind and grandfatherly at times, given to (justified) anger at other times. I am beginning to think that Tolkien was a medium polytheist. Consider how complex the ranks of the maiar and valar are. We've got not one, but two Lokis... Melkor and Anatar, both of whom were friends of the gods, but then turned wholly to evil doings and were cast out.. His staunch Catholicism gives me feeling of "the lady doth protest too much, methinks". No criticism of him, just an observation.

Agree...Strider fits in as a similar character too - with maybe a more human and down to earth common-folkish side despite being royalty and King.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
TI love the films but there is some oddness here and there like the huge Evil Eye. :)

On one fan-site someone suggested that the Mouth of Sauron should have also been disembodied; someone else countered with something like "oh great, all these body parts running amuck in Mordor". :D
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
The Old Way is absolutely everywhere in popular culture. The Fairy Tales we grew up with, many of the songs we sing (I've recently come to the conclusion that "pop music" is nothing more than a modern-day manifestation of what would otherwise be called "folk music"), our little taboos and rituals, emphasis on personal freedom together with a closeness of "friends and family" (what might be regarded as a modern "tribe"), etc.

Now, of course, a lot of these are through a different lens and context than that of the ancient Tribes, particularly because of the Greco-Roman and Christian influences. However, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing; the Vikings would have had a very different culture than the Tribes the Romans fought. Still yet, Indo-European influence is likewise everywhere, despite not being strictly native (probably). Half of the Aesir are "descendents" of PIE Gods. This sort of cultural exchange resulting in shifting traditions and values is a natural part of its evolution. It's what makes the Old Way alive, rather than a set-in-stone absolutist, singular dogma. Christianity tried to remove it, but ultimately all that happened was that the New Way (as it was called sometimes) simply acted as a new coat of paint on the still quite present Old Way. It's not unlike how the core of modern teenage pop culture hasn't changed a whole lot since the postwar years, even though new stars, idols, styles, slang, toys, etc. crop up every generation.

Gandalf is complex. The wanderer who gathers knowledge, imparts knowledge, keeps his true identity hidden, kind and grandfatherly at times, given to (justified) anger at other times. I am beginning to think that Tolkien was a medium polytheist. Consider how complex the ranks of the maiar and valar are. We've got not one, but two Lokis... Melkor and Anatar, both of whom were friends of the gods, but then turned wholly to evil doings and were cast out.. His staunch Catholicism gives me feeling of "the lady doth protest too much, methinks". No criticism of him, just an observation.

I wonder if the LOTR mythos is what Asatru Lore might have been like if it had survived until today, by implementing Christian-esque elements into a reformed organized religion. (A major theme of LOTR is "good and evil"; a conception I don't really see much in Northern Lore).

I've heard it said that one interpretation of Beowulf is that it's sort of a marriage between the Pagan and the Christian. I don't really read Beowulf like that, but LOTR absolutely fits that bill.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Tolkien said in his letters that he wanted to create a uniquely British mythology. I think he came just short of achieving lift-off by taking stories of the north and infusing Christian elements. As I said, the Valar and Maiar are very polytheistic, but the concept of Eru Iluvatar is very Judeo-Christian. He was astute enough to have probably followed the events of the Viking Age and Christianization to a plausible end in his works, melding them as they might have in reality.
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
Tolkien said in his letters that he wanted to create a uniquely British mythology. I think he came just short of achieving lift-off by taking stories of the north and infusing Christian elements. As I said, the Valar and Maiar are very polytheistic, but the concept of Eru Iluvatar is very Judeo-Christian. He was astute enough to have probably followed the events of the Viking Age and Christianization to a plausible end in his works, melding them as they might have in reality.

However, while I agree the LOTR mythos falls just barely short of achieving the "uniquely British mythology", I think it indirectly created something similar in the form of Anglo-American High Fantasy, which is particularly manifest in D&D mythos.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Definitely. It's really the gold standard for high fantasy. Nothing can touch it... but that's my biased opinion. ;)
 
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