Ask Anything about Me or my Religion (Restored Gospel/Mormonism).

[Neuropteron]

I have never seen the literal Ark of the Covenant with the stone tablets carved by God therein. Still I believe, and I do not find that irrational. I've never literally seen & felt Christ's scarred hands, still I believe. I have seen picture of Jerusalem, but they don't stir me to faith. I have seen picture of Mecca and the Islamic kaaba, and such does not stir me to faith.

What does stir me to faith is the Holy Spirit testifying in my heart. I experiment on His words, over and over again. Rationally thinking & studying things through. Testing cause & effect- is there good fruit found when I do as He says? When I do otherwise, is the fruit good or bad? "Faith" does not equate to "shut off your brain & just follow", but rather faith is an action word. Faith is lived, learned, experimented, ponder deeply, over and over again for decades. Christ is that firm foundation, and He is indeed rational.

Hi,
Those are good observations.

As you say, I don't need to see the ark of the covenant to believe it existed. One reason is that there is over thousand years of history to back it up.

Additionally I know who the author of the tablets is and who inspired the law given to Moses, he was clearly identified as Jehovah, whose name also appears on the tablets itself.

Had the tablets -by its own admission - been hidden, I for one would need a valid explanation for this before I could invest belief in it.
Perhaps a question we could ask: if it was the same God that wrote the Golden plates than the one wrote the stone tablets, why did he reveal one but hide the other?
If it was a different God that wrote the Gold plates, who was it?

As you say "Faith" does not equate to "shut off your brain". The brain needs reasonable answers to reasonable questions, only then can we exercise faith.

 

[Neuropteron]

By that logic: why did Christ acsend? Would have been so much easier to have people believe if He just stuck around.

Hi,

Good question.

He gave his "human" life as a ransom. this meant he could not continue as a man on earth.

He was then ressurected a spirit person. Spirit people live in heaven, not on earth.

He was preparing to be king in heaven. A kingdom to rule over the earth, to benefit mankind. That is what "the good news" is all about also called the "gospel".

He is much more perwerful in heaven than on earth. Thus better equipt to help mankind as a spirit person.

Those are the reason I can think of.

 

[Jane.Doe]

Hi,

Good question.

He gave his "human" life as a ransom. this meant he could not continue as a man on earth.

He was then ressurected a spirit person. Spirit people live in heaven, not on earth.

He was preparing to be king in heaven. A kingdom to rule over the earth, to benefit mankind. That is what "the good news" is all about also called the "gospel".

He is much more perwerful in heaven than on earth. Thus better equipt to help mankind as a spirit person.

Those are the reason I can think of.

Thank you for your thoughts here, though I do disagree.

Hi,
Those are good observations.

As you say, I don't need to see the ark of the covenant to believe it existed. One reason is that there is over thousand years of history to back it up.

Additionally I know who the author of the tablets is and who inspired the law given to Moses, he was clearly identified as Jehovah, whose name also appears on the tablets itself.

Had the tablets -by its own admission - been hidden, I for one would need a valid explanation for this before I could invest belief in it.
Perhaps a question we could ask: if it was the same God that wrote the Golden plates than the one wrote the stone tablets, why did he reveal one but hide the other?
If it was a different God that wrote the Gold plates, who was it?

As you say "Faith" does not equate to "shut off your brain". The brain needs reasonable answers to reasonable questions, only then can we exercise faith.

Have you likewise experimented on His words? Prayerfully thought things out?
For me, I find that to be very rational faith. Do you not?

If so,

 

[idea]

The New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage is this: A man and a woman who is sealed by the Word of God (proper priesthood authority) and keeps the covenants made in the temple, will obtain the Highest Degree of the Celestial Kingdom. Polygamy never had to be included for that covenant to hold weight. In fact, polygamy would probably be the great minority of people that the covenant would apply to in that way. God will not force you to be with someone you are unhappy with. If a woman prefers to be in a polygamous relationship, it has never been a doctrine of the Church where they are kept from the highest degree of Glory same as one who prefers not to be in a polygamous relationship. Monogamy is greatly advertised by the Book of Mormon and the Church, yet its doctrine will not exclude those people who have accepted polygamy as their structure of relationship. I do not know exactly how relationships really look like in heaven, I don't know if there are still sexual urges, or if there is a deeper emotional connection between a man and a woman that makes sex inconceivable or obsolete, truth is I don't know. All I know is while God doesn't always promote Polygamy He doesn't condone it and I'm sure that he wanted people to know that in D and C 132.

In the end of all end we have the freedom of choice. God does say sex after marriage. Marriage is a committed relationship where the man will support and honor the marriage as the woman sees fit and vice versa, to me, this is infinitely better than what is happening in the world where single mothers are all too common from one night stands and guys bailing on the responsibility of the relationship. God needs commitment of both sexes and it needs to be sealed by his Word. That is the meat of the doctrine.

I think you need to read your scriptures again... according to JS, Muslims, and Warren Jeffs, women should aspire to be harem girls as their greatest glory.

Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as you have inquired of my hand to know and understand wherein I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many awives and bconcubines—

2 Behold, and lo, I am the Lord thy God, and will answer thee as touching this matter.

3 Therefore, aprepare thy heart to receive and bobey the instructions which I am about to give unto you; for all those who have this law revealed unto them must obey the same....

 

[Neuropteron]

Have you likewise experimented on His words? Prayerfully thought things out?
For me, I find that to be very rational faith. Do you not?

Hi,
Not quite sure what "experimented on His words", is referring to. This might not be the meaning of this comment, but I don's view God or his word as a science project.

As for prayerful consideration and meditating on the meaning of the scriptures, I completely agree with what your saying.

 

[RabbiO]

@Jane.Doe, nice to see you posting. I've decided not to post on RF anymore. I've been posting here nearly 18 years now, and I've had all of the unmoderated nastiness I can tolerate. So hold down the fort, girl! You can do it better than anyone I've ever met here.

Sorry to see you leave.

 

[idea]

The Spirit of God dispels doubts not me.

Everyone claims the spirit confirms their faith.

How do you interpret the spiritual experiences of those from other faiths?

 

[idea]

Hi,
Not quite sure what "experimented on His words", is referring to. This might not be the meaning of this comment, but I don's view God or his word as a science project.

As for prayerful consideration and meditating on the meaning of the scriptures, I completely agree with what your saying.

I do agree with the concept of trying out a belief system, then evaluating the fruits of it.

When the fruits of paying tithing, attending temple weekly, fulfilling callings, reading scriptures daily ends with kids abused by bishopric and finding lies upon lies, family torn apart - the opposite of peace - some will say "you must be tried" and others will conclude - guess the fruits of this belief system are evil and not true.

 

[Watchmen]

Like I said about the European Jesus depicted in art and murals around Europe and America. The God plates existed and contained the record of the Book of Mormon. That is the message in the art not to depict how it was translated. Jesus was likely not blue eyed pale skin and light colored hair as they show in the stained glass windows, but the representation expresses the same idea that He died for the European people just as He did the world.

My question was different. Can you answer my question? Thanks you.

 

[Jacob Samuelson]

Everyone claims the spirit confirms their faith.

How do you interpret the spiritual experiences of those from other faiths?

This is where LDS have their 11 article of faith. There is no need to dismiss any spiritual experience that leads a person to worship God and do good. My wife was a Born Again Christian for several years getting her off the street and drugs and she gained a testimony of Christ there. She later joined the Church and has been grateful to still be able to praise Jesus having the fulness of the Gospel. Her understanding of Jesus has grown, but her belief in Him hadn't changed.

 

[Jacob Samuelson]

As you noted, Joseph supposedly translated ancient gold plates in a writing no one had ever heard of by looking at a rock in a hat. Why is it, you think, that the LDS Church does not depict this in its standard art used for missionary work and Sunday classes?

Sorry, you are right, I didn't answer it. In my opinion, cause looking in a hat while translating looks silly to the 21st century.

 

[Jane.Doe]

Hi,
Not quite sure what "experimented on His words", is referring to. This might not be the meaning of this comment, but I don's view God or his word as a science project.

Have you observed that when you follow His words, the fruit is good?
And when you haven't (we all fall short), that things go badly?

Hi,
As for prayerful consideration and meditating on the meaning of the scriptures, I completely agree with what your saying.

Rational faith!

 

[idea]

This is where LDS have their 11 article of faith. There is no need to dismiss any spiritual experience that leads a person to worship God and do good. My wife was a Born Again Christian for several years getting her off the street and drugs and she gained a testimony of Christ there. She later joined the Church and has been grateful to still be able to praise Jesus having the fulness of the Gospel. Her understanding of Jesus has grown, but her belief in Him hadn't changed.

I now interpret those feelings as chemical reactions due to herd instincts, as they have not testified of truth, or protected me or my family. "a distinct feeling of warmth and expansion that is accompanied by appreciation and affection" - Elevation (emotion) - Wikipedia
As children become child brides, and pedophiles flourish in organizations teaching followers to rely on those feelings, I am now very distrustful of them.

If you watch the video - heaven's gate, child brides, that "spiritual witness" is not always a good thing, not from God.

 

[Neuropteron]

Have you observed that when you follow His words, the fruit is good?
And when you haven't (we all fall short), that things go badly?

Rational faith!

Hi,
Yes, that is often the case.

The benefit of observing God's word are always beneficial, even if the benefits are not always instataneous or sometimes even recognised by some.

That being said, the scriptures do point out that those that deviate from God's word can temporarely prosper, the benefit of righteousness however is everlasing.

 

[Jane.Doe]

Hi,
Yes, that is often the case.

The benefit of observing God's word are always beneficial, even if the benefits are not always instataneous or sometimes even recognised by some.

That being said, the scriptures do point out that those that deviate from God's word can temporarely prosper, the benefit of righteousness however is everlasing.

Amen, amen!

To me, this is rational faith. Thought out, pondered, prayed, observed. Beautiful.

 

[Neuropteron]

I do agree with the concept of trying out a belief system, then evaluating the fruits of it.

When the fruits of paying tithing, attending temple weekly, fulfilling callings, reading scriptures daily ends with kids abused by bishopric and finding lies upon lies, family torn apart - the opposite of peace - some will say "you must be tried" and others will conclude - guess the fruits of this belief system are evil and not true.

Hi,
I agree with you.
Paul suggest we use God's word as a "yardstick" to measure how certain religious system measure up to the requirements of true Christian behavior. "...all scripture is beneficial...for setting things straight " 2Tim 3:16.

 

[idea]

Hi,
I agree with you.
Paul suggest we use God's word as a "yardstick" to measure how certain religious system measure up to the requirements of true Christian behavior. "...all scripture is beneficial...for setting things straight " 2Tim 3:16.

So, is true Christian behavior - forgive abuse 70x7, be humble and turn the other cheek and teach children to do likewise? Women should follow elders of church in all they command? Sustain, support, and endure the abuse of themselves and children?

 

[Watchmen]

Sorry, you are right, I didn't answer it. In my opinion, cause looking in a hat while translating looks silly to the 21st century.

What about in the 20th century?
Any other reason?

 

[Clear]

Hi @Jacob Samuelson


The restorational movement :
I love the concept of the restorational movement and it's attempt to return to the earliest version of Christian worldviews on base doctrines, whether that attempt is made through revelation or through historical discovery by historians.


An example : Pre-existence and conditions there :
The early Judeo-Christian literature confirms the early Judeo-Christian belief in an existence of spirits before the creation of the earth; the concept of God creating a plan for these spirits; a choosing of a messiah/Christ as part of his plan; the entry of spirits into mortality through birth; etc.

All of these beliefs exist in the early historical literature and are certainly quite friendly in support of restorational base doctrines the LDS believe in and the LDS claim that these were the more original doctrines.. (If you need some examples, I certainly will provide them)


Why do LDS not use the early Judeo-historical literature? :
The LDS could certainly use such early Judeo-Christian literature in their Classes without any doctrinal discontent or disharmony with their doctrines while non-restorationists cannot do this.
This seems to offer such a great advantage to the LDS and their claims.

Is there some reason why the LDS do not seem to use such early historical literature (more than they seem to) in order to demonstrate their base doctrines are a version of the earliest Judeo-Christian doctrines since the literature itself is friendly to their claims?

Thanks for any additional insight Jacob.

Clear
τωειφιφυω

 

[Neuropteron]

So, is true Christian behavior - forgive abuse 70x7, be humble and turn the other cheek and teach children to do likewise? Women should follow elders of church in all they command? Sustain, support, and endure the abuse of themselves and children?

Hi,
Forgiving 70x7 is a hyperbol, unlikely to happen in real life. The message is, when a person sins against you and is truly repentant, the Christian thing to do is to forgive.

A forgiving attitude on our part is a basis for God forgiving us.
Obviously should a person sin against us followed by repentance 70x7 times there is something mentally wrong with that person, perhaps therapy is in order, nonetheless the need to forgive is still required.

The Bible does not recommend following elders in all they command, actually the opposite is true. Christians have only one master, Christ.

Turning the other cheek refers to the tradition of slapping someone with a glove to incite a fight.
Since a slave of the Lord does not need to fight, Jesus recommends to "turn the other cheek" in an illustrative manner to reject the taunt. (2 Tim 2:24)