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Ask me about the Third Reich, National Socialism, Hitler & the Holocaust

Nietzsche

The Last Prussian
Premium Member
There is a lot of misconception regarding Nazi Germany, Hitler, and things related to it. While I certainly do not claim to know everything about the subjects, I do know a good deal, and seeing as how there have been quite a few times this has popped up lately, I would like to have a place where people might learn something about the topic and to also prevent other threads from derailing.

Again, I don't know everything about it but I would like to think I know enough to help. So ask away.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
very interesting. I understand many things about the policy of the Nationals Socialist Party, aka NSDAP.

What I never understood is what Hitler gained from exterminating the Jews. Given that he squandered most of the money he had accumulated in building hundreds of concentration camps in all Europe.

besides, he deported also Jews from other countries. Italian Jews, Polish Jews, etc....

In Italy people are all Mediterranean and Jewish-like. so there was no obsession with the Arian race.
and I've found documents that prove that Hitler forced Mussolini to make the anti-Semitic laws in Italy as loyalty proof- Edda Ciano, his daughter had Jewish friends. so...
 

Nietzsche

The Last Prussian
Premium Member
very interesting. I understand many things about the policy of the Nationals Socialist Party, aka NSDAP.

What I never understood is what Hitler gained from exterminating the Jews. Given that he squandered most of the money he had accumulated in building hundreds of concentration camps in all Europe.

besides, he deported also Jews from other countries. Italian Jews, Polish Jews, etc....
He, and many others, believed in a "Zionist World Conspiracy". Namely, that Jews & Leftists back in Germany are what caused them to accept the Treaty of Versailles. It's referred to as the "Stab in the back" myth.

In Italy people are all Mediterranean and Jewish-like. so there was no this obsession with the Arian race.
This is not true at all. Italy wasn't nearly as rabid as Nazi Germany, but they still wanted to put the Jews "in their place" and out of the halls of power in Italy.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
He, and many others, believed in a "Zionist World Conspiracy". Namely, that Jews & Leftists back in Germany are what caused them to accept the Treaty of Versailles. It's referred to as the "Stab in the back" myth..

with all due respect, I can't accept this kind of explanation. You know, this doesn't explain why he deported also Italian Jews who had nothing to do neither with Germany nor with the Banking system.
 
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metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
There is a lot of misconception regarding Nazi Germany, Hitler, and things related to it. While I certainly do not claim to know everything about the subjects, I do know a good deal, and seeing as how there have been quite a few times this has popped up lately, I would like to have a place where people might learn something about the topic and to also prevent other threads from derailing.

Again, I don't know everything about it but I would like to think I know enough to help. So ask away.
If I may possibly interject some related items at times since I studied the Holocaust here in the States, in Poland, and in Israel, plus I took an interest in studying "Der Spiegel" in order to tey and comprehend how a very civilized people could have fallen for the fascist ideology.

Sounds like this could be an interesting thread, so thanks for starting it.
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
My question is why was the nazi party called national socialist, did it have anything to do at all with socialism, as I've heard they were very anti communist, anti leftist.
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
Not so much about the Third Reich specifically, but what do you think of the US's popular conception of the Nazis? That is to say, as depicted in Wolfenstein and similar media?
 

dave_

Active Member
There is a lot of misconception regarding Nazi Germany, Hitler, and things related to it. While I certainly do not claim to know everything about the subjects, I do know a good deal, and seeing as how there have been quite a few times this has popped up lately, I would like to have a place where people might learn something about the topic and to also prevent other threads from derailing.

Again, I don't know everything about it but I would like to think I know enough to help. So ask away.

What was Hitler's and SS's dominant religion or religions?
 

Nietzsche

The Last Prussian
Premium Member
with all due respect, I can't accept this kind of explanation. You know, this doesn't explain why he deported also Italian Jews who had nothing to do neither with Germany nor with the Banking system.
Hitler's target wasn't just German Jews. It was "World Jewry" he was trying to stamp out.

My question is why was the nazi party called national socialist, did it have anything to do at all with socialism, as I've heard they were very anti communist, anti leftist.
Socialism-Communism tends to be internationalist, and it works on the assumption that all people regardless of race, religion or creed are equals. The Fascist system was partly inspired by the Soc/Com/Syndicalist movements in Europe. Fascism paints itself as a "Third Way", something that isn't Communism(which is just an economic model) or Capitalism. Fascism itself is both a social & economic policy.

The differences lay in what they work towards. In a Communist-Socialist state, the Proletariat(the workers) are what unites and drives the people. It's the common good as seen through the lens of Worker Equality and common ownership, things like that. In that system, there is no "state" to speak of, the people are the state.

In Fascism, the people are united and driven by the State, and in this regard the State is an organ greater than the sum of its parts, where it is the duty of every man & woman to uphold its laws and policies. Since Fascism is not Internationalist, there are lots of flavours of it.

In Spain you had the Falange & Franco's government which was more like a traditional military-authoritarian government, in France there was the Action Francious & Petain's Vichy government which was similar in some regards to Franco's, in Poland you had Jozef Pilsudski's government(it never called itself Fascist, but it was close enough). Those(short of the 'Pure Falange') were all varying degrees of Fascist-Authoritarian with an emphasis on militarism & united state identity. There were no Basques & Catalans in Franco's Spain, nor were there Occitans in Petain's France.

When you get to Mussolini's system, however, you see a new emphasis. Namely, territorial expansion. Horthy's system is closest to Mussolini's in that regard. There was also Rexism in Belgium, but it never gained power. There are many other Fascist parties as well, and to go through all of them would take forever, but I hope this is sufficient.

Now, to National Socialism. This is based on racial concepts rather than governmental ones. It sees the state as merely the united consciousness of the Volk, and the State & Volk(Nation) were embodied in the Fuehrer. "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuehrer" or One People, One State, One Leader. One of its set goals was to expand 'Germandom' into the East, to get 'Lebensraum' or living-space. To stretch from the Meuse to the Urals, from the Arctic Circle(Norway) to the Austro-Italian Alps, uniting all Germanic peoples under the "Greater Germanic Empire". This would've included Scandinavians, Dutch, Flems, so on.

In National Socialism, the 'State' is just an apparatus of power to wielded by the Leader(Fuehrer), and it is the duty of the people to "work towards the Fuhrer". This meant not waiting for the call from above to do the Fuehrer's will, but to act on ones own initiative based on the goals set forth by the Fuehrer.

In Nazi Germany, in short, Hitler was the law. Entirely. And the German government suffered for it immensely, because it basically reverted back to a feudal situation, where different branches of the government were all vying for Hitler's approval, all having overlapping spheres of influence, and thus were at times working against each other. The 'Neuordnung' that they intended to put in place both in the Reich and in the conquered territories defied the very name, because there was nothing 'orderly' about the National Socialist form of of government.

And that is where it differs most greatly from Fascism. In Fascism, there is still a State. The Leader is just the Leader, he still works for the good of the state. The Leader is not the state in Fascism.
Do you think that Barbarossa was Hitler's biggest military blunder, and that it ultimately led to him losing the war?

Operation Barbarossa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Operation Barbarossa was a gamble, but from his point of view at the time he had no reason to assume it couldn't be done. The Wehrmacht was suffering from "Victory Disease".
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
How did the timeline of estrangement of European countries and the USA from Nazism (and Italian Fascism) run?
 

Nietzsche

The Last Prussian
Premium Member
Did Hitler do anything good for Germany?
Animal rights, anti-smoking campaigns. But not much beyond that, certainly not anything that couldn't have been done by someone who wasn't insane.
What was Hitler's and SS's dominant religion or religions?
Hitler's religion is an extremely complex, contradictory topic. He wasn't a Christian, he wasn't an Atheist, he wasn't a Pagan. The best thing I think, the fairest thing, would be to say that he was a Deist, because he did believe in a Creator-God, just not an interventionist one.

The SS had only the "Blood Religion", the idea that Germanic blood was a holy, precious thing. Himmler was a mystic, and hard to pin him down into one thing or the other, so just go with "Bugfuuckbatshiitinsane". Himmler was crazy even by Nazi standards.
 

Nietzsche

The Last Prussian
Premium Member
How much of a difference to German history did Hitler specifically make?
We still see the damage today. He took one of the most vibrant, beautiful & breathtaking cultures in the world and the only thing most people now associate with Germany is the War and the genocidal insanity that drove it.

Something I should make clear: The genocide was not a side effect of the war. The War was just a means to commit genocide. From day one that was the goal: The subjugation & extermination of "racially inferior" peoples to make way for Germanic settlers.

How did the timeline of estrangement of European countries and the USA from Nazism (and Italian Fascism) run?
Could you word that differently, I'm not sure exactly what you're asking.
 

Nietzsche

The Last Prussian
Premium Member
Not so much about the Third Reich specifically, but what do you think of the US's popular conception of the Nazis? That is to say, as depicted in Wolfenstein and similar media?
The most recent Wolfenstein game actually depicts the Nazi mentality surprisingly well, I have to say. But too few people grasp the magnitude of what was being done, and in a way I think that's a good thing. When you truly understand what happened, when you've seen the ashes of what used to be people, it's hard to find any light in the world.

I was a Christian when I walked into Auschwitz, I came out an atheist. I adopted the Germanic Gods later out of my love for Germanic culture, and because it is the only way I can reconcile a higher power with what happened there.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Himmler was crazy even by Nazi standards.

Whether this is true or not, I don't know, but supposedly Himmler's goal, idea, plan was to restore Germany back to its Pagan/Heathen traditions. Seemingly he was obsessed with ancient Germanic religion and reconstructing it, in order to give Germany an identity again. Initially that was his only desire, but it went horribly awry. Again, whether that is true or it's just Himmler-sympathizers speaking, I don't know.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
We still see the damage today. He took one of the most vibrant, beautiful & breathtaking cultures in the world and the only thing most people now associate with Germany is the War and the genocidal insanity that drove it.

Something I should make clear: The genocide was not a side effect of the war. The War was just a means to commit genocide. From day one that was the goal: The subjugation & extermination of "racially inferior" peoples to make way for Germanic settlers.

Thanks, but that is not exactly what I was asking.

What do you expect would have happened if Hitler was never born, or never developed an intereste in politics? How much of the Nazi movement is a direct consequence of his personality, and how much was the Zeistgeist? What are the odds that a similar character would have taken his place? How similar, and to what consequences?


Could you word that differently, I'm not sure exactly what you're asking.

Sure. While currently Hitler is universally reviled, it took a long time for people (not only in Germany) to realize that he must be stopped.

As of 1944, even his own high military command basically had to conspire to kill him.

But how notable was the Nazi regime for the time, anyway? How early did the signs that this wasn't just another relatively acceptable nationalistic regime come, and how clearly? How clear is that even today?
 

Nietzsche

The Last Prussian
Premium Member
Whether this is true or not, I don't know, but supposedly Himmler's goal, idea, plan was to restore Germany back to its Pagan/Heathen traditions. Seemingly he was obsessed with ancient Germanic religion and reconstructing it, in order to give Germany an identity again. Initially that was his only desire, but it went horribly awry. Again, whether that is true or it's just Himmler-sympathizers speaking, I don't know.
Himmler was into mysticism, and while he may have been inspired by the likes of the Thule Society, his actual religious beliefs are hard to pin down. What he believed in bears no resemblance to either the Norse pagan faith of the Vikings or the modern Asatru.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
What he believed in bears no resemblance to either the Norse pagan faith of the Vikings or the modern Asatru.

No, it certainly doesn't. I wonder if he even knew what the ancient ways were apart from names of some deities.
 
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