The reason why I want to know why people are tortured is because in my mind torture is an especially bad thing. The kind of torture I'm thinking of is of the worst kind, an excessive amount of physical pain for extended periods of time, and so that people will still live, and then have to endure this pain the next day, and then the next, and so on. I think relatively minor acts of evil, say having some money stolen, may be more easily explained. So, assuming that an all-powerful, good god(s) exist, what explanations are there to account for torture of the worst kinds?
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Assuming a good, all-powerful god(s) - why is there torture?
- Thread starter 839311
- Start date
Man has free will to choose. Ecclesiastes [8v9] brings to our attention that man has dominated man to his injury. Why? for one reason as verse 11 says because sentence against a crime is not speedily executed then the heart of man gets fully set in him to do evil. -[ Isaiah 26v10]
By Adam choosing independence from God, then Adam was setting up people rule over God rule, and God at this time does not intervene in man's choices.
If god(s) are good and all-powerful, why would they allow such torture to happen?
kai
ragamuffin
sounds like hell, doesn't it?
Vasilisa Jade
Formerly Saint Tigeress
Because the gods that claim to be all-powerful and good are in denial, just the same as those who worship them.
God is the one torturing, and God is the one receiving the torture. That's why, IMO.
Vasilisa Jade
Formerly Saint Tigeress
Denial to me I usually see equating to personality problems ignored instead of addressed, which then easily fester. The festering manifests itself in horrible nasty ways which are then rationalized and justified. Then the self-rightous denial of whole goodness and all-powerfulness continues with little to no actual positive evolution or self understanding. If it comes it takes forever so it seems.
That doesn't seem like something a good, all-powerful god would do. Why torture oneself?
kai
ragamuffin
if it didnt happen on earth no one would beleive it happens in hell, maybe its a warning, If god made Hell then he/she is not totally against the idea
just a thought
Who knows? For the experience, maybe?
All the Scriptures say that the activities of God are a Mystery.
Assuming they truly are good and all-powerful. Why is there torture of the kind mentioned in the OP?
kai
ragamuffin
Vasilisa Jade
Formerly Saint Tigeress
Assuming they are truly good and all powerful, there is no reason that there is torture of the kind mentioned in the OP.
Perhaps. But I think that the experience of being tortured is probably gained fairly quickly. I'm not sure what valuable experience prolonged torturing could bring. Considering Jesus, 3 days of torture is bad, but he could have gained a valuable perspective on torture, and evil, having experienced this himself. But, what would be the point of, say, experiencing torture for 3 years? I think that the experience would probably become empty after some time, offering nothing positive.
kai
ragamuffin
I already said that the Scriptures say that the activities of God are a Mystery.
In the mythology of the Srimad Bhagavatam, God (Vasudeva) simply incarnated as Narayana (the physical embodiment of the universe), out of whose navel sprang a lotus, upon which sat Brahma (the Creator), from whom was born the Sages, humans, and gods. From a bout of anger on the part of Brahma, Rudra (the Destroyer, aka Shiva) was born. I've only read the first two books of the Bhagavatam, and no real motivation has been given other than play. That's the motivation for creating the world given in the Qur'an. No motivation whatsoever was given in the Bible, as far as I know.
Vasilisa Jade
Formerly Saint Tigeress
It would become empty, and numbing, probably because by then all of your nerve endings would be dead.
This is interesting to me. I value experience highly when wanting to know something. Do you want to know torture? There are ways to experience these things safely and in controlled environments, but then you will never know of torture the same as others who have truly experienced it have. Like for instance, this poor dude:
*warning* *disturbing* *bare butt* *sorry*
LiveLeak.com - Egyptian Internet Torture Video
This is the still not super safe, but with care this is the safest way to experience such pain I think, maybe.... A lot of people who do suspensions don't report much pain though. It does something to your mind, which I'm sure at some point your mind reaches in a real state of torture once you accept your predicament.
ME
Crucifixion Suspension
Suspend 4th
This one is the most noteworthy and interesting of all, because of what he says. I don't really understand but it is fascinating:
Resurrection of Puzuzu
I hope I didn't cross any lines.
:run:
Ive come up with a couple possibilities that I find compelling. The first possibility is that the gods kind of suspend the soul of the person who is being tortured. In this case, the person no longer experiences the torturing. The gods, assuming they have great power over physics, could affect the body of the individual that is being tortured in such a way that it would appear to others that the individual that is tortured is experiencing it, when in actuality, the body would be like a lifeless machine, and the persons soul would not actually be experiencing it. I find this explanation compelling because torture is now something that is no longer truly being experienced. Now, it may be that an individual can gain value out of the experience, but I think that there is a point at which torture no longer adds any value and is simply suffering. Perhaps god would allow a being to experience torture, as long as it is good to do so, such as if that being could gain greater insight and understanding into evil through having this experience.
The other explanation that I also find compelling is that this world may be a kind of holodeck, or illusion. Beings may be sort of plugged into a machine, kind of like in the matrix. The gods may find this to be a valuable tool for helping beings gain wisdom and knowledge. In such a world torture may simply be an illusion, not actually being experienced by any living life-form. Instead, the reason of making torture a part of this illusion would as a challenge, in which the beings would have to try to find reasonable explanations to account for torture. It could be that our entire lives are set up in a way as to make our experience potentially very valuable, with all kinds of opportunities to grow and develop, and all kinds of challenges to overcome in hopes of learning and coming out of this illusion far better off than we were going in.