Atheism and bereavement

[Copernicus]

What makes atheists such pariahs? As an atheist, I have long pondered this question, because I don't feel like someone who ought to be ostracized merely because I do not accept the existence of gods. Religion, particularly theistic religion, is immensely popular. Most people believe in gods and ghosts and spirits. Most people who can vote for someone to represent them in government will not vote for an atheist. It isn't just that atheists are bad people. It is that their judgment cannot be trusted. But atheists also pose a threat.

I think that religion is so popular with humans because it fulfills a lot of human needs. It gives people a sense that wrongs will be righted in the end and that reality is not indifferent to their needs. It can mitigate the fear of death if it offers hope of survival beyond death. But perhaps an even more powerful need that it fulfills is the need to mitigate bereavement. We don't always fear our own demise. Sometimes it is the loss of those we love that we find most difficult to come to grips with. If we atheists could somehow convince the rest of humanity to drop its absurd belief in gods, we would not just be depriving folks of their own sense of immortality. We would also be killing their feeling that those they have lost are not really lost.

 

[Smoke]

If we atheists could somehow convince the rest of humanity to drop its absurd belief in gods, we would not just be depriving folks of their own sense of immortality. We would also be killing their feeling that those they have lost are not really lost.

On the other hand, it would free them from worries that their loved ones who didn't follow the correct faith are being tortured in hell and that the torture will continue forever. It would free them from the fear that if they don't do and believe as they're told, they'll suffer the same fate. And it would free them from the unfortunate idea that nothing in this life really matters except preparing for the next. For Christians and Muslims, the afterlife is not all beer and skittles.

 

[Copernicus]

Smoke, I agree that there are a lot of believers out there who still believe in the old hell/heaven dichotomy in the afterlife, but it has become unfashionable to dote on that aspect of religious belief, even if one still accepts the basic principle of divine punishment and reward. As people get older, they begin to lose more friends and loved ones, and the pain of separation can become quite unbearable, especially after a lifetime association. The idea that such people still exist somewhere and the association perhaps be rekindled in an afterlife can be a great comfort to people. If people think that way, then the idea that atheists might be right can be perceived as an attack on their ability to cope with the sense of loss. I'm not saying this to say that people ought not to argue against belief in gods. I am quite aware of the benefits of freedom from religion. It just helps me to understand the depth of anger that people feel against those who would publicly defend their religious skepticism.

 

[Smoke]

If people think that way, then the idea that atheists might be right can be perceived as an attack on their ability to cope with the sense of loss.

Probably, but there's nothing I can do about that. I don't go around trying to convince people to be atheists. I do say that people should respect religious freedom and stop trying to force their religious views on everybody else, and that seems to offend many Christians as much as if I'd said their mothers were a bunch of two-dollar whores, so I can only imagine how offended they'd be if I were some kind of atheist missionary.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

I have been known to quote the bible for those who are in need of some comfort.

As Australia is basically a christian country it's a pretty safe bet that any person you run into on the street believes in god.

If it gives someone peace of mind i don't mind spouting the stuff.

-Q

 

[Kerr]

What makes atheists such pariahs? As an atheist, I have long pondered this question, because I don't feel like someone who ought to be ostracized merely because I do not accept the existence of gods. Religion, particularly theistic religion, is immensely popular. Most people believe in gods and ghosts and spirits. Most people who can vote for someone to represent them in government will not vote for an atheist. It isn't just that atheists are bad people. It is that their judgment cannot be trusted. But atheists also pose a threat.

I think that religion is so popular with humans because it fulfills a lot of human needs. It gives people a sense that wrongs will be righted in the end and that reality is not indifferent to their needs. It can mitigate the fear of death if it offers hope of survival beyond death. But perhaps an even more powerful need that it fulfills is the need to mitigate bereavement. We don't always fear our own demise. Sometimes it is the loss of those we love that we find most difficult to come to grips with. If we atheists could somehow convince the rest of humanity to drop its absurd belief in gods, we would not just be depriving folks of their own sense of immortality. We would also be killing their feeling that those they have lost are not really lost.

You know you are doing the same mistake that you claim atheists are doing here in saying that atheists, as a group, does that . Of course, I assume you mean intolerant secular atheists that wants everyone to be like them and do not have any respect for peoples beliefs what so ever (basically extremists, not just "normal one")? Don´t like that view myself, simply because I believe that what path is best for us depend on the individual in question and because I value the differences between people (if everyone was the same the world would be very boring for one, but I also doubt it would work at all). It is nothing unique, though, the same applies for every faith and belief.

Atheists as a group, however, are not pariahs. Many of us are good people who respect peoples faith. Same goes for theists. Just as the same goes for secular and religious people. We are individuals .

Would also like to add that if people won´t elect someone into a position of power because they are a secular atheist they are as intolerant as if they wouldn´t elect someone for being Christian or hindu or something like that.

 

[footprints]

As Australia is basically a christian country it's a pretty safe bet that any person you run into on the street believes in god.

-Q

That is perceptional at best. Where do you walk about in, a monastery?

 

[Sunstone]

What makes atheists such pariahs?

It seems to me the popularity of atheists is a bit like the popularity of someone at a sports game who is not rooting for our side. It puts a damper on the festivities and sometimes that is resented.

But that's only true of some religions -- socio-ethical religions. Other religions, such as Buddhism, do not seem to resent atheists.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It seems to me the popularity of atheists is a bit like the popularity of someone at a sports game who is not rooting for our side. It puts a damper on the festivities and sometimes that is resented.

Like "shooting from the don't" in craps.

But that's only true of some religions -- socio-ethical religions. Other religions, such as Buddhism, do not seem to resent atheists.

I'm not so sure. I think this might have more to do with these religions being in a minority position in this part of the world. From what I gather from people who live in areas where Buddhism is the mainstream, majority religion, the religious establishment there can be just as intolerant as the Christian establishment can be in the West.

But maybe this just reinforces your point, since in these places, Buddhism does take on a "socio-ethical" role.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I think that religion is so popular with humans because it fulfills a lot of human needs. It gives people a sense that wrongs will be righted in the end and that reality is not indifferent to their needs. It can mitigate the fear of death if it offers hope of survival beyond death. But perhaps an even more powerful need that it fulfills is the need to mitigate bereavement. We don't always fear our own demise. Sometimes it is the loss of those we love that we find most difficult to come to grips with. If we atheists could somehow convince the rest of humanity to drop its absurd belief in gods, we would not just be depriving folks of their own sense of immortality. We would also be killing their feeling that those they have lost are not really lost.

I doubt thoughts about atheism even come close to this deep for most anti-atheists. There is no logic or reflection regarding their response to atheism - just reflexive reaction based in indoctrination.

 

[Willamena]

What makes atheists such pariahs?

I don't know. Where I live, they are not.

 

[sandandfoam]

I don't know. Where I live, they are not.

Same where I live.
Matter of fact if asked I normally say atheist because it's less awkward than Protestant

 

[Jeremiah]

What makes atheists such pariahs? As an atheist, I have long pondered this question, because I don't feel like someone who ought to be ostracized merely because I do not accept the existence of gods. Religion, particularly theistic religion, is immensely popular. Most people believe in gods and ghosts and spirits. Most people who can vote for someone to represent them in government will not vote for an atheist. It isn't just that atheists are bad people. It is that their judgment cannot be trusted. But atheists also pose a threat.

I think that religion is so popular with humans because it fulfills a lot of human needs. It gives people a sense that wrongs will be righted in the end and that reality is not indifferent to their needs. It can mitigate the fear of death if it offers hope of survival beyond death. But perhaps an even more powerful need that it fulfills is the need to mitigate bereavement. We don't always fear our own demise. Sometimes it is the loss of those we love that we find most difficult to come to grips with. If we atheists could somehow convince the rest of humanity to drop its absurd belief in gods, we would not just be depriving folks of their own sense of immortality. We would also be killing their feeling that those they have lost are not really lost.

It has nothing to do with being an atheist or what that entails. It is just being different and that is all it takes. There is nothing wrong with being an atheist or expressing your ideas and it is not healthy, in my opinion, to blame oneself in the face intolerance. It is certainly not your fault if someone looks down on you for having a different view on "God" and having this different view certainly does not make you a lesser person.

The intolerant people are the cause the problems; not the other way around.

 

[Copernicus]

You know you are doing the same mistake that you claim atheists are doing here in saying that atheists, as a group, does that . Of course, I assume you mean intolerant secular atheists that wants everyone to be like them and do not have any respect for peoples beliefs what so ever (basically extremists, not just "normal one")?...

I'm a bit puzzled by your interpretation of what I said. I haven't accused atheists of doing anything at all, and this has nothing to do with militancy. Atheists are like gays in that people find open acceptance of their lifestyle threatening. In the case of gays, people might feel their own sexuality as somehow under attack, but there are other complications--e.g. the fear of parents that their children might be in (or get into) a gay relationship.

Atheism might also carry family relationship implications, but it provokes other fears in people. What I attempted to point out in the OP was how important it is to many people that their deceased loved ones remain a factor in their lives. Atheism challenges that belief, and it can therefore cause an extreme emotional response.

Atheists as a group, however, are not pariahs. Many of us are good people who respect peoples faith. Same goes for theists. Just as the same goes for secular and religious people. We are individuals .

Well, you seem to have missed my point here. I am not denying that many atheists or people of faith are good people. I think that both groups are pretty much the same in terms of good and bad attitudes. It is still a fact that atheists are social pariahs for a large segment of the population in most regions of the world. In some places, this low social standing manifests itself in terms of laws that punish blasphemy or public denials of belief. In the US, it erupts in frequent outbursts of anger and resentment towards atheists by public figures. Surveys still show that people generally do not like atheists and would not vote for them in elections. This is without knowing anything else about them as individuals.

Would also like to add that if people won´t elect someone into a position of power because they are a secular atheist they are as intolerant as if they wouldn´t elect someone for being Christian or hindu or something like that.

I disagree. I think that a Hindu is much more likely to win election anywhere in the US than an atheist. People of faith tend to respect other people of faith more precisely because they don't pose the kind of challenge as the one I mentioned in the OP. Hindus, like Christians and Muslims, tend to believe that the soul is immortal. Of course, there are people who are extremely intolerant and won't trust anyone that does not share their particular worldview. But I'm talking about attitudes even in relatively tolerant individuals. Atheism carries a stigma that is unequal to most other religious groups.

 

[Copernicus]

I don't know. Where I live, they are not.

In case it wasn't clear in the OP, I wasn't talking about where YOU live.

 

[Smoke]

Surveys still show that people generally do not like atheists and would not vote for them in elections. This is without knowing anything else about them as individuals.

I don't think it has anything to do with fear of having their belief in an afterlife taken away. I think it's because they think you'd have to be a terrible person not to believe in God. They think atheists are some kind of monster, like gay people, Communists, child molesters and cannibals.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I don't think it has anything to do with fear of having their belief in an afterlife taken away. I think it's because they think you'd have to be a terrible person not to believe in God. They think atheists are some kind of monster, like gay people, Communists, child molesters and cannibals.

I think many assume all those things are necessarily connected.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I think many assume all those things are necessarily connected.

Makes sense, to an extent. If you're only ever given morality, justice, duty, etc. taught to you in the context of religion, then I can see why you'd think of them as a package deal. If I thought someone had no basis to be a good and decent person, I'd worry about electing him, too.

 

[footprints]

It seems to me the popularity of atheists is a bit like the popularity of someone at a sports game who is not rooting for our side. It puts a damper on the festivities and sometimes that is resented.

What I have noticed at sports events is that their are radicals on both sides of the fence, some of this is all in good fun, and some of it gets out of hand and spoils it for everyone.

However due to human nature, I do understand that one teams supporters will often say, it was them and not us. These people have a lot to learn as it pertains to human nature.

But that's only true of some religions -- socio-ethical religions. Other religions, such as Buddhism, do not seem to resent atheists.

I do not know of any religions who resent atheists, I do know of many who resent atheism. Where atheists are concerned, most religions that I know of only pity them, and have sympathy for them, that one day they will understand life according to their own perspective.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I do not know of any religions who resent atheists, I do know of many who resent atheism. Where atheists are concerned, most religions that I know of only pity them, and have sympathy for them, that one day they will understand life according to their own perspective.

That's so adorably sad. It's like someone with Down's Syndrome pitying a physics professor because he thinks the professor doesn't understand that rainbows are made of candy.