Atheism - I don't understand it

[jarofthoughts]

I think atheism and I include myself in that category is just a general term for anyone who lacks a belief in a god/s. That's all. You'll find atheists are as various as religious and political belief systems.

That's pretty much it, yes.

 

[I Shred For Satan]

You have hold of the wrong end of the stick. Absence of evidence does not lead to the conclusion that there is no god, but it also does not lead to the conclusion that there is one. What one should do is withold belief in either conclusion. Without evidence, belief is delusion.

What would you call belief that is not backed with evidence?

Im pretty sure belief without evidence is that whole "faith" thing some people seem to really get behind. And just to put my 2 cents in on this, I'm of the opinion every man or woman is their own god. Not in the sense of being their own creator, but in the way that each individual dictates the events of their life. No one has a "destiny" or "fate". One should accept responsibility for their own accomplishments and failures. Endulge in what makes you and yours happy. And in death, I don't believe there is anyform of afterlife whatsoever or that humans have a soul. We just rot. And I guess the foundation of my beliefs is based on the fact that any type of belief system involving faith in a higher power, whether it be monotheistic or polytheistic, just seems asanine to me. I've explored several religions so I can have a well enough understanding to pass judgment, and I feel like I'm reading little kids stories. To each their own, but I'm comfortable with the god I don't have. And in the improbable event that I'm wrong, well send me to hell because i want nothing to do with anything divine or holy \m/

 

[Looncall]

you are avoiding the question of death. It is possible to have a dead animal that has the same chemical makeup as their living counterpart... oxygen is not a cure for death. The difference between the living and the dead is not materialistic in nature.

Nonsense. It is the arrangement of the chemicals that counts.+6

There is no soul. You have been conned.

 

[cottage]

lol...I am as puzzled as ever. Its a logical conundrum. The atheistic axiom seems to be: If there is no evidence of some statement X then there should be no reason to accept it. Right?

Now in place of X if I write "God doesnt exist" then I have the logical conclusion:

There is no evidence of the validity of the statement "God doesn't exist" hence there should be no reason to accept this statement.

Not quite. To say 'There is no God' implies no contradiction; therefore the statement is logically valid. Now if it is being asserted that God's existence is impossible then it would be an unsound statement, but only if an attributable (ie self-contradictory) proposition made it so.

 

[A Thousand Suns]

This doesn't seem logical to me at all.

You describe someone getting a gut feeling about something, and then over time, getting more and more sure about that gut feeling.

If it's actual knowledge, we can try to verify it. For instance, does this "a priori feeling" give the feeler any insight into the real state of things? If so, it's made a prediction, so we can try to test it. If it doesn't make any testable claims, I think it's premature to call it "knowledge", because you don't really know whether or not it's true..

The same can also be said about love then, its just a gut feeling and cannot be empirically proven. It would really be a challenge to an atheist to say to his wife or children - damn ! my brain is playing tricks - with the chemicals, there is nothing called Love
The double-standards of atheist just accepting one form of truth that has no evidence whatsoever (instead the evidence goes against his perception of the idea he believes).

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The same can also be said about love then, its just a gut feeling and cannot be empirically proven. It would really be a challenge to an atheist to say to his wife or children - damn ! my brain is playing tricks - with the chemicals, there is nothing called Love

But "love" is the feeling itself. If a person feels the existence of love, then love exists, because "love" describes nothing more than that feeling.

If you're willing to say that your god is nothing more than a feeling, then maybe your analogy works. Not until then, though.

The double-standards of atheist just accepting one form of truth that has no evidence whatsoever (instead the evidence goes against his perception of the idea he believes).

Frankly, I think the real double standard here is the one used by theists: the claim of the existence of God is a claim about the real nature of the physical universe. Is there any other claim about the real world that you would simply take on faith, with no more evidence than a feeling?

Would you accept faith as your doctor's justification for his diagnosis? How about from the architect that designed your home? "Oh - I didn't do any structural calculations; I just have a deep conviction that your floor joists are strong enough."

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I believe it was St. Augustine who famously said "believe so that you may understand".

A-ManESL apparently thinks this saying holds merit ... unless of course one were to believe in atheism.

Good. A famous and revered hindu scripture called Yoga Vasista says: Whatever is true in consciousness is true, since consciousness is true.

That's all well and good, but some things are "true" outside of the mind, and other things are only "true" within people's minds. Theists often have difficulty grasping this crucial distinction, as evidenced by some recent posts in this thread.

 

[jarofthoughts]

The same can also be said about love then, its just a gut feeling and cannot be empirically proven.

Yes it can, at least in theory.

It would really be a challenge to an atheist to say to his wife or children - damn ! my brain is playing tricks - with the chemicals, there is nothing called Love

It's not a trick.
Love is the release of chemicals and neurotransmitters, mainly dopamine and oxytocine.

The double-standards of atheist just accepting one form of truth that has no evidence whatsoever (instead the evidence goes against his perception of the idea he believes).

If that is your point, then you need to come up with a better example.

 

[cablescavenger]

Before joining the forum I had never seriously conversed with an atheist person regarding God. If I remember correctly one of the first debates I got into RF was with an atheist whose basic point was something like - "I don't believe in God as there is no evidence for God". What I don't understand even today, is how can one be sure there is no evidence for God. In Islam we are taught that by following the straight part shown by the Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) ultimately God's knowledge is bestowed. That is to say, there is a pre-requisite for acquiring that evidence, and one has to strive for it.

I do not understand the average atheists position clearly. Does he/she not believe in God because
1. He/she feels like it, or
2. He/she feels that if there was any evidence it would be known to him/her already and since nothing is known so there can't be any evidence.

Atheism? the A is just a prefix for the grade in our theism exams.

 

[Scuba Pete]

I loved this quote from Harry Potter; "Of course it's happening inside your head Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?"

 

[gerobbins]

As a Christian, I can understand how athiests think and feel. I have had my doubts many times, but it all leads to just having faith. That being said, its the arrogance of may Christians and other religions that cause athiests to have their backs up against the wall.

 

[waitasec]

I loved this quote from Harry Potter; "Of course it's happening inside your head Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?"

hmmm. so if i heard a voice telling me to sell all my worldly possessions and quit my job as this voice said, 'i will take care of you and your life will be witness to my love for you'. i should do it? really?

how about if you heard that voice...?

 

[Scuba Pete]

how about if you heard that voice...?

I did hear that voice. I have followed it too!

 

[waitasec]

I did hear that voice. I have followed it too!

so how are you able to go on line?

 

[Scuba Pete]

I am the Spirit in the machine.

However, the voice I heard had a different message. It was one of tolerance, of peace and of love!

 

[waitasec]

I am the Spirit in the machine.

However, the voice I heard had a different message. It was one of tolerance, of peace and of love!

oh i see.

that was your inclination to empathy...most people have it
Is empathy in our genes? - CNN.com

 

[Nakosis]

hmmm. so if i heard a voice telling me to sell all my worldly possessions and quit my job as this voice said, 'i will take care of you and your life will be witness to my love for you'. i should do it? really?

how about if you heard that voice...?

Nope...

People have different voices in their head. The brain is quite capable of creating a voice out of seemly no where. That's no guarantee it's of divine origin.

Just walking along and some thought pops in your head. If you're looking for that kind of thing anyway it's easy to mistake it as something you want it to be.

 

[Scuba Pete]

that was your inclination to empathy...

The Spirit has been called a lot of names. But I have to ask: were you actually there? Did you hear the Spirit as I did? Or are you merely stuck tying to rationalize the spiritual with the physical?

 

[confused453]

I don't believe in God because there's no empirical evidence of its existance. I believe that God was invented by power hungry people to put fear into humans in order to obey the rulers, kings, and such. I believe that any being claiming to be God, is either technologically advanced beyond our present comprehension, or just a con artist.

 

[confused453]

hmmm. so if i heard a voice telling me to sell all my worldly possessions and quit my job as this voice said, 'i will take care of you and your life will be witness to my love for you'. i should do it? really?
how about if you heard that voice...?

You just brought an awesome point. I write music, and I trained myself to hear sounds in my head, if I concentrate hard enough in a quiet environment or very noisy one like in a metro train. If I listen to a song many many times a week, sometimes I can literally play that song in my head, hearing all the instruments including the singer, almost as good as when using the speakers.

I'm wondering now, if a person goes to church every week, and constantly reads the bible or equivalent, that same kind of ability would mess up his/her head, which would have him/her believe to being able to converse with God.