Atheism, part 2

[PoetPhilosopher]

So I'm at day 2 of a personal detox from magical thinking. Part of doing so is reflecting and realizing what appealed to me about magical thinking to begin with. For me, it is the following:

1. Realizing that I had some attachment to "magical thinking" due to life experiences. This happened many years ago when I identified as atheist and had some bad experiences happen in my life. It made me doubt myself, and made me associate my past ideas with 'failure', despite not all of my past ideas and beliefs being the cause of this 'failure'.

2. Realizing that a lot of times, when it comes to weird occurences, the natural explanation is simplest and requires less mental gymnastics. Let me give one example:

There was a weird experience once when my mom was sleeping and a voice that sounded like hers called out my sister's name. My sister rushed to my mom's room, and my mom was half asleep, half awake, and asked her if she called for her, and my mom said that she didn't.

For a time, I wondered if a ghost had called out my sister's name. I now realize the simplest explanation is that my mom was sleep-talking. I have been around people who have sleep-talked before, and sometimes it can be a spooky experience due to their voice sounding a tad different even (at times) due to them not being fully awake or aware.

And upon looking back on it, this answer, to me, makes the most sense.

Also:

Another thing which has convinced me to try a more logical, "worldly" form of thinking, is that I feel it makes more sense for the immediate world (the world we live in). It no longer made sense for me to dedicate a portion of my time, mind, and heart to abstract ideas, in quite the same way - with the hopes it may benefit me in an afterlife. And with no proof that a god or gods would honor their part of the bargain. I realized that if I went to that kind of trouble, it would have to be for something I can touch or feel with my hand, or perhaps even, something that can produce a paper contract with me. But for things like gods, spirits, I can do none of that.

 

[Nimos]

Another thing which has convinced me to try a more logical, "worldly" form of thinking, is that I feel it makes more sense for the immediate world (the world we live in).

I think most atheists would agree, that a healthy level of scepticism is a huge part of or a natural part of being an atheist.

So if you haven't spent a lot of time on it yet, I would look into these things as it will help you understand and approach things in a better way. Meaning it will give you a toolbox so to speak, not only in regard to religious beliefs but in general.

Here are some videos that I think are good, to just get you started.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I think most atheists would agree, that a healthy level of scepticism is a huge part of or a natural part of being an atheist.

So if you haven't spent a lot of time on it yet, I would look into these things as it will help you understand and approach things in a better way. Meaning it will give you a toolbox so to speak, not only in regard to religious beliefs but in general.

Here are some videos that I think are good, to just get you started.

Thanks, I watched two of the three videos, and will watch the other later. They provide some great talking points.

 

[Valjean]

So I'm at day 2 of a personal detox from magical thinking. Part of doing so is reflecting and realizing what appealed to me about magical thinking to begin with. For me, it is the following:

1. Realizing that I had some attachment to "magical thinking" due to life experiences. This happened many years ago when I identified as atheist and had some bad experiences happen in my life. It made me doubt myself, and made me associate my past ideas with 'failure', despite not all of my past ideas and beliefs being the cause of this 'failure'.

2. Realizing that a lot of times, when it comes to weird occurences, the natural explanation is simplest and requires less mental gymnastics. Let me give one example:

There was a weird experience once when my mom was sleeping and a voice that sounded like hers called out my sister's name. My sister rushed to my mom's room, and my mom was was half asleep, half awake, and asked her if she called for her, and my mom said that she didn't.

For a time, I wondered if a ghost had called out my sister's name. I now realize the simplest explanation is that my mom was sleep-talking. I have been around people who have sleep-talked before, and sometimes it can be a spooky experience due to their voice sounding a tad different even (at times) due to them not being fully awake or aware.

And upon looking back on it, this answer, to me, makes the most sense.

Also:

Another thing which has convinced me to try a more logical, "worldly" form of thinking, is that I feel it makes more sense for the immediate world (the world we live in). It no longer made sense for me to dedicate a portion of my time, mind, and heart to abstract ideas, in quite the same way - with the hopes it may benefit me in an afterlife. And with no proof that a god or gods would honor their part of the bargain. I realized that if I went to that kind of trouble, it would have to be for something I can touch or feel with my hand, or perhaps even, something that can produce a paper contract with me. But for things like gods, spirits, I can do none of that.

I see a lot of Occam's razor in your approach, but this approach is also used by theists who argue from personal incredulity. "It's too complex. I don't understand all the steps involved. The whole complex process and result should, therefore, be subsumed under "Goddidit.""
Beware. This approach relies on errors in reason and logic.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I see a lot of Occam's razor in your approach, but this approach is also used by theists who argue from personal incredulity. "It's too complex. I don't understand all the steps involved. The whole complex process and result should, therefore, be subsumed under "Goddidit.""
Beware. This approach relies on errors in reason and logic.

Yeah. Occam's Razor doesn't prove things, it just says if given multiple options, the simplest is the one most likely to be true. (Or at least, and more likely - the simplest is the explanation one should start with.)

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Yeah. Occam's Razor doesn't prove things, it just says if given multiple options, the simplest is the one most likely to be true. (Or at least, and more likely - the simplest is the explanation one should start with.)

But I'll add there's a time to use Occam's Razor and a time not to.

Seems dangerous to apply it to something like cosmology, in general.

 

[samtonga43]

1. Realizing that I had some attachment to "magical thinking" due to life experiences. This happened many years ago when I identified as atheist and had some bad experiences happen in my life. It made me doubt myself, and made me associate my past ideas with 'failure', despite not all of my past ideas and beliefs being the cause of this 'failure'.

You know, if I were to change your words "magical thinking", into "atheism", this would be me.

2. Realizing that a lot of times, when it comes to weird occurences, the natural explanation is simplest and requires less mental gymnastics. Let me give one example:

There was a weird experience once when my mom was sleeping and a voice that sounded like hers called out my sister's name. My sister rushed to my mom's room, and my mom was half asleep, half awake, and asked her if she called for her, and my mom said that she didn't.

For a time, I wondered if a ghost had called out my sister's name. I now realize the simplest explanation is that my mom was sleep-talking. I have been around people who have sleep-talked before, and sometimes it can be a spooky experience due to their voice sounding a tad different even (at times) due to them not being fully awake or aware. And upon looking back on it, this answer, to me, makes the most sense.

Exactly.

Also: Another thing which has convinced me to try a more logical, "worldly" form of thinking, is that I feel it makes more sense for the immediate world (the world we live in). It no longer made sense for me to dedicate a portion of my time, mind, and heart to abstract ideas, in quite the same way - with the hopes it may benefit me in an afterlife. And with no proof that a god or gods would honor their part of the bargain.

Same here. I hope I would never be quite so shallow that
I would believe because it might somehow benefit me in an afterlife. I don't see my faith as a 'bargain' and I hope I never will.

 

[PureX]

I would add something here that's so far been unmentioned.

When some inexplicable event occurs, and your mind starts thinking of supernatural explanations, ask yourself what good any of it will do you EVEN IF THE EXPLANATION IS SUPERNATURAL? I mean, so a "ghost did it". What are you going to do with that information, anyway? Nothing but be confused, I would think. Because all it does is leave you with unnecessary and unanswered questions. Confusion.

So just ignore it. Write it off as an inexplicable event, and get on with life. That way you don't have to stew over it, or be confused by trying to figure it out. Let the mystery be a mystery. Life is full of them. I don't know if ghosts exist or not. And I don't care. They aren't any of my business. And that being the case, I am never plagued by them. Because even if they tried, I would ignore their effects as just another inexplicable mystery in life. Same for demons or gods or whatever other magical possibilities people tend to stew about. I don't have to reject them as being impossible. OR accept them as possible. I don't have to deal with them at all. Whatever they are or are not is none of my concern.

And having that attitude, I find very little reason to engage in any magical speculation.