Atheist becomes a Christian after 40 years

[We Never Know]

Well maybe, but who is to assume he was not already a good person?
It might make him a better person if he just started to follow what Jesus taught, but not f he started following what the Church teaches, saved and forgiven by the blood of Jesus.

I guess what I was trying to say is that it is better to have no beliefs than false beliefs, because a person can go from no beliefs to true beliefs, but it is more difficult to go from false beliefs to true beliefs because people become attached to their beliefs. Once a person becomes a Christian, especially in older age, they rarely drop out. It is pretty much a belief system based upon emotion, not reason, and emotions are not easy to change. People want to believe that Jesus died for their sins, they want to feel loved by Jesus, and they want to have a guarantee of going to heaven. Many people also want to not have to earn their way to heaven. But if any or all of this is not true then what they want is not what they are going to get and I do see a danger in this.

IMO, good and bad exist inside everyone. Being religious or not religious doesn't change who we really are at heart.

One evening, an elderly Cherokee brave told his grandson about a battle that goes on inside people.

He said, "my son, the battle is between two 'wolves' inside us all. One is evil. It is anger, envy, jealousy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.

The other is good. It is joy, peace love, hope serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith."

The grandson though about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, "which wolf wins?"

The old Cherokee simply replied, "the one that you feed."

 

[blü 2]

I listen to Christian radio on my bike and between songs people call in and tell stories. A few weeks ago a man called in with a story of how he had just become a Christian after 40 years of being an atheist.

Is it better that this man at least believes in God now? I am not so sure. I think it might be better for atheists to remain atheists rather than becoming Christians because I believe that the doctrines of the Church are false. Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against belief in Jesus and all His wonderful parables and teachings, but that is not what Christianity teaches. It teaches that Jesus is God, original sin, being saved and forgiven by the cross sacrifice, and the bodily resurrection, ascension and return of Jesus from heaven on some poufy clouds.

Whereas I believe in the cross sacrifice, I do not believe in original sin, so I do not believe there is anything to be saved from except our attachment to selfish desires and the world. Moreover, I do not believe in heaven and hell as places we go to, contingent solely upon whether we accepted Jesus as our Savior. I believe that the Christian doctrines are false, and not what Jesus taught. They are concoctions of the Church which came about as the result of misinterpretations of scripture, not to mention the influences of Paul, which changed the course of Christianity.

So, in my opinion, Christianity as it is believed by most Christians is a false religion. At least there is hope that an atheist might someday find another pathway to God, and even if he didn’t, I think that if an atheist has good principles and characterand leads the life that Jesus taught, he can receive the mercy and pardon of God in the afterlife and come to believe in God.

I apologize if I hurt any Christian’s feelings but I have seen far too many atheists who have been damaged by the Bible and Christianity and I have empathy for them. Christianity is the primary reason there are atheists.

I cannot side with Christianity because it has hurt so many people. Some of these atheists are good friends I met on forums and I have known them for years. They escaped Christianity, so they are doing just fine, they are good people. There is no reason they have to believe that Jesus died for their sins in order to have a chance at heaven. Websites like the following are beyond disgusting…

How To Get To Heaven

How to get to heaven - Believe the truth!
The truth is that there is only one way for any human being to get to heaven and that is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

I have considerable doubts that this person became a Christian because he was persuaded that the Trinity doctrine was true, or because he had subjected all belief systems to a scrupulous examination and made an intellectual determination that Christianity was the sole winner.

More likely, it seems to me, factors to do with changes that come with aging, such as fading of the energy to remain skeptical, remembering childhood tales and indoctrinations, fear of death, even just a desire for an accepting community, did the hard work for him.

 

[Trailblazer]

I have considerable doubts that this person became a Christian because he was persuaded that the Trinity doctrine was true, or because he had subjected all belief systems to a scrupulous examination and made an intellectual determination that Christianity was the sole winner.

More likely, it seems to me, factors to do with changes that come with aging, such as fading of the energy to remain skeptical, remembering childhood tales and indoctrinations, fear of death, even just a desire for an accepting community, did the hard work for him.

I think you are right that he did not do any scrupulous examination or make as intellectual determination.
Mind you, I was riding my bike to work when I heard this on the radio, and I was going through a busy intersection, so I did not catch all of the story, just the tail end. As I recall, he had some kind of near miss car accident wherein he and his child almost got hit and killed, and he attributed his survival to God saving him. So it was kind of an instant conversion. His Christian family members had been prodding him for years so it was natural for him to pick Christianity.

 

[khenna]

KCA is the Kalam Cosmological Argument. It is used for proof of the existence of God.

It goes:

P1: whatever begins to exist has a cause.

P2: the universe began to exist.

C: therefore the universe has a cause to its existence.

From the conclusion they reason that the universe's cause must be spaceless, infinite, timeless, immaterial, eternal, extremely powerful, and personal.

I do not see why the KCA proves the existence of God.
To me the proof is the experience of God's grace. 27 years ago I was hospitalized for being psychotic (the Bible calls this possessed), which was caused by a bipolar disorder and a trauma from my childhood. By now I have accepted the consequences of my illness and trauma, but I couldn't have done this without God's grace, which has established direct communication with the living and learning God.

Regards
khenna

 

[blü 2]

I think you are right that he did not do any scrupulous examination or make as intellectual determination.
Mind you, I was riding my bike to work when I heard this on the radio, and I was going through a busy intersection, so I did not catch all of the story, just the tail end. As I recall, he had some kind of near miss car accident wherein he and his child almost got hit and killed, and he attributed his survival to God saving him. So it was kind of an instant conversion. His Christian family members had been prodding him for years so it was natural for him to pick Christianity.

He attributes his luck to a god ─ and there's some evidence that humans instinctively feel that certain kinds of good luck are somehow sent, giving rise to the dictum attributed to (D.G.) Rossetti. 'The worst time for an atheists is when he feels thankful and has no one to thank'. But that it was the Christian god must point to early indoctrination or acculturation or both.

(I know that feeling. When I drove a cab in my student days and had timely luck, I noticed myself more than once murmuring Thanks. T.G. ─ where T.G. stands for 'taxi god'. Quaint!)

 

[Skwim]

I listen to Christian radio on my bike and between songs people call in and tell stories. A few weeks ago a man called in with a story of how he had just become a Christian after 40 years of being an atheist.

While not an impossibility, don't believe everything you hear.

.

 

[osgart]

I do not see why the KCA proves the existence of God.
To me the proof is the experience of God's grace. 27 years ago I was hospitalized for being psychotic (the Bible calls this possessed), which was caused by a bipolar disorder and a trauma from my childhood. By now I have accepted the consequences of my illness and trauma, but I couldn't have done this without God's grace, which has established direct communication with the living and learning God.

Regards
khenna

The KCA is used along side, the Big Bang Theory, and the BVG Theorem. The BVG Theorem establishes that there must be an ultimate cosmic beginning according to proponents of KCA.

Since before the Big Bang there was no space, time, matter, and energy KCA proponents use the metaphysical propositions that something can't come from nothing, and an infinite regress of causes is implausible.

 

[PureX]

I guess what I was trying to say is that it is better to have no beliefs than false beliefs, ...

Better for whom? And how does any of us know what is a "false belief" about a mythical character in some religious story? Seems to me that our beliefs either help us become better people, and live better lives, or they don't. "True" and "false" don't really have anything to do with it beyond our own ego. It's really all about positive functionality.

 

[pearl]

Whereas I believe in the cross sacrifice, I do not believe in original sin, so I do not believe there is anything to be saved from except our attachment to selfish desires and the world.

It is in our human nature to be attached to selfish desires, that is original sin.

They are concoctions of the Church which came about as the result of misinterpretations of scripture, not to mention the influences of Paul, which changed the course of Christianity

The Church existed before Scripture, Scripture is the product of the Church.

I apologize if I hurt any Christian’s feelings

Your naivete is forgiven.

 

[Dawnofhope]

It does still stand, however, that what the world has known as Christianity for hundreds of years pretty much only exists as it does because of the Nicene Counsel, who took it upon themselves to officially decide what books will go in the Bible, that there is a trinity and Jesus is god, and so many other issues that basically became blasphemous to consider any other way than what the Church promoted, before, during, and after the many reformations and schisms.

I agree with what you say. The Nicene creed was probably necessary to prevent schism. At that point in history the Nicene Creed with the backing of the Emperor's decree served a purpose. The problem was it set in stone one particular way of viewing what Jesus taught and closed the door on other valid theologies. Unfortunately the theology that was agreed on is flawed. The legacy is a religion that is unable to meet the needs of the masses in these modern times. However, it is my experience that rejecting the Gospel Jesus outright is not the best way of resolving the problem.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I have a general opinion but that is all it is.... Like I said, only God knows what is better for any individual.

I believe that Christianity as it is generally taught by the Church and believed by Christians is a false religion. Even if Christians are the most exemplary people on Earth, that does not change my opinion about the false doctrines of Christianity. This was explained by George Townshend better that I can ever explain it. He was a Christian clergyman who resigned his orders after 40 years to become a Baha’i. I think he knows a lot more about Christianity than I do. He explains what happened to Christianity in his book entitled Christ and Baha'u'llah in the Chapter entitled The False Prophets

If the Baha'i Faith is true, Christianity has to be false and vice versa because they contradict each other in many ways...
Jesus was either the Only Way to God for all time or not...
Baha'u'llah was either the Comforter and the Return of Christ or not...
You cannot have it both ways.

I would word it differently. Christianity as it is taught today has some false teachings or doctrines. To say Christianity is a false religion is extreme and in contradiction with Baha'i beliefs.

I recently attended an interfaith gathering hosted by one of our main Christian denominations. The minister impressed me. She attended the whole meeting and mixed and mingled afterwards. She explained her role is not to teach her congregation any particular theology, but to enable each member to find a theology that works for them.

Becoming a Baha'i has enabled me to find a theology based on the Gospel of Christ that makes sense and empowers me to walk a path of faith in the real world.

For me there is no Christianity or Baha'i Faith, just the one religion of God where is will and purpose has been progressively revealed. There is no contradiction between what Christ and Baha'u'llah taught. If you mistake man made doctrines for the Teachings of Christ, then problems become insurmountable.

 

[ChristineM]

I listen to Christian radio on my bike and between songs people call in and tell stories. A few weeks ago a man called in with a story of how he had just become a Christian after 40 years of being an atheist.

Is it better that this man at least believes in God now? I am not so sure. I think it might be better for atheists to remain atheists rather than becoming Christians because I believe that the doctrines of the Church are false. Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against belief in Jesus and all His wonderful parables and teachings, but that is not what Christianity teaches. It teaches that Jesus is God, original sin, being saved and forgiven by the cross sacrifice, and the bodily resurrection, ascension and return of Jesus from heaven on some poufy clouds.

Whereas I believe in the cross sacrifice, I do not believe in original sin, so I do not believe there is anything to be saved from except our attachment to selfish desires and the world. Moreover, I do not believe in heaven and hell as places we go to, contingent solely upon whether we accepted Jesus as our Savior. I believe that the Christian doctrines are false, and not what Jesus taught. They are concoctions of the Church which came about as the result of misinterpretations of scripture, not to mention the influences of Paul, which changed the course of Christianity.

So, in my opinion, Christianity as it is believed by most Christians is a false religion. At least there is hope that an atheist might someday find another pathway to God, and even if he didn’t, I think that if an atheist has good principles and characterand leads the life that Jesus taught, he can receive the mercy and pardon of God in the afterlife and come to believe in God.

I apologize if I hurt any Christian’s feelings but I have seen far too many atheists who have been damaged by the Bible and Christianity and I have empathy for them. Christianity is the primary reason there are atheists.

I cannot side with Christianity because it has hurt so many people. Some of these atheists are good friends I met on forums and I have known them for years. They escaped Christianity, so they are doing just fine, they are good people. There is no reason they have to believe that Jesus died for their sins in order to have a chance at heaven. Websites like the following are beyond disgusting…

How To Get To Heaven

How to get to heaven - Believe the truth!
The truth is that there is only one way for any human being to get to heaven and that is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

It happens and it works both ways. Even on RF there are people who have swapped religions, swapped from atheist to adopt a religious faith or swapped dropped their faith to become an atheist.

Whether its better for the caller? Entirely up to him.

 

[charlie sc]

A few weeks ago a man called in with a story of how he had just become a Christian after 40 years of being an atheist.

Cool. Whatever makes him happy.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I agree with what you say. The Nicene creed was probably necessary to prevent schism. At that point in history the Nicene Creed with the backing of the Emperor's decree served a purpose. The problem was it set in stone one particular way of viewing what Jesus taught and closed the door on other valid theologies. Unfortunately, the theology that was agreed on is flawed. The legacy is a religion that is unable to meet the needs of the masses in these modern times. However, it is my experience that rejecting the Gospel Jesus outright is not the best way of resolving the problem.

The problem is what we call the Gospels as well was decided at the Nicene Council, and they deliberately omitted any and all books that didnt fit their narrative. This means the Judas' book was removed, leaving him unfairly represented as a traitor instead of a cursed human with a very unfortunate responsibility, and worse yet was the omission of Marys book, which doesnt fot the Church's view of oppressing women and hating sex.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

The problem is what we call the Gospels as well was decided at the Nicene Council, and they deliberately omitted any and all books that didnt fit their narrative. This means the Judas' book was removed, leaving him unfairly represented as a traitor instead of a cursed human with a very unfortunate responsibility, and worse yet was the omission of Marys book, which doesnt fot the Church's view of oppressing women and hating sex.

I think it's true that all this confusion is a result of the Bible not properly being put together. I don't care if me saying so makes people scrutinize me, given the original post kind of lends itself to being a safe-zone to discuss these issues.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I think it's true that all this confusion is a result of the Bible not properly being put together.

Its a very reasonable assumption, as weaving a story about god and the divine just do not seem to have been a concern of the Nicene Council - creating a political dogma that is unchallengable because god said so, on the other hand, does seem what they did achieve, along with centuries of sexual shame and repression, an odd concept of a seperate but the same trinity, and they didnt care that god promised the son shall not pay for the sins of the father, but the doctrine of original sin and bow sin is inheritable is just exactly that (punishig the child for the sins of the parent). Control and dominance is what theu established.

 

[David T]

I think you are right that he did not do any scrupulous examination or make as intellectual determination.
Mind you, I was riding my bike to work when I heard this on the radio, and I was going through a busy intersection, so I did not catch all of the story, just the tail end. As I recall, he had some kind of near miss car accident wherein he and his child almost got hit and killed, and he attributed his survival to God saving him. So it was kind of an instant conversion. His Christian family members had been prodding him for years so it was natural for him to pick Christianity.

You debunked blu. He had an experience.

Thats actually rather scientific. All science really is fundementally rooted in experience not narratives or inferences we create in regards to our experiences. .

His experience is not unlike the sea captian, who is in the middle of a horrible storm, and afterwards creates the song amazing grace. Or the poet after being in the middle of a storm cell runs home and writes how great thou art. Or the minister whom gazing upon a mountain range adopts beethovens 9th. Or the scholar whom prays to St. Anita if he is also spared from a storm that he will convert. Martin luther.

REALITY always trumps narrative and logic and over intellectualizing nonsense regardless.
.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I listen to Christian radio on my bike and between songs people call in and tell stories. A few weeks ago a man called in with a story of how he had just become a Christian after 40 years of being an atheist.

Is it better that this man at least believes in God now? I am not so sure. I think it might be better for atheists to remain atheists rather than becoming Christians because I believe that the doctrines of the Church are false. Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against belief in Jesus and all His wonderful parables and teachings, but that is not what Christianity teaches. It teaches that Jesus is God, original sin, being saved and forgiven by the cross sacrifice, and the bodily resurrection, ascension and return of Jesus from heaven on some poufy clouds.

Whereas I believe in the cross sacrifice, I do not believe in original sin, so I do not believe there is anything to be saved from except our attachment to selfish desires and the world. Moreover, I do not believe in heaven and hell as places we go to, contingent solely upon whether we accepted Jesus as our Savior. I believe that the Christian doctrines are false, and not what Jesus taught. They are concoctions of the Church which came about as the result of misinterpretations of scripture, not to mention the influences of Paul, which changed the course of Christianity.

So, in my opinion, Christianity as it is believed by most Christians is a false religion. At least there is hope that an atheist might someday find another pathway to God, and even if he didn’t, I think that if an atheist has good principles and characterand leads the life that Jesus taught, he can receive the mercy and pardon of God in the afterlife and come to believe in God.

I apologize if I hurt any Christian’s feelings but I have seen far too many atheists who have been damaged by the Bible and Christianity and I have empathy for them. Christianity is the primary reason there are atheists.

I cannot side with Christianity because it has hurt so many people. Some of these atheists are good friends I met on forums and I have known them for years. They escaped Christianity, so they are doing just fine, they are good people. There is no reason they have to believe that Jesus died for their sins in order to have a chance at heaven. Websites like the following are beyond disgusting…

How To Get To Heaven

How to get to heaven - Believe the truth!
The truth is that there is only one way for any human being to get to heaven and that is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

I kind of figured the guy got bored. Having a religion gives you something to do.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I kind of figured the guy got bored. Having a religion gives you something to do.

I concede there. It does.

 

[David T]

Its a very reasonable assumption, as weaving a story about god and the divine just do not seem to have been a concern of the Nicene Council - creating a political dogma that is unchallengable because god said so, on the other hand, does seem what they did achieve, along with centuries of sexual shame and repression, an odd concept of a seperate but the same trinity, and they didnt care that god promised the son shall not pay for the sins of the father, but the doctrine of original sin and bow sin is inheritable is just exactly that (punishig the child for the sins of the parent). Control and dominance is what theu established.

"creating a political dogma that is unchallengable because god said so"

"I believe, i dont believe i am agnostic" is singular. Which dogma must i hold to?

If we talk neurology which garbage region of neurology comes up with this nonsense? My daughter does not have this issue....