Atheists: If God existed would God……

[Nimos]

Atheists: If God existed would God do #1 or #2, as noted below?

These are two separate questions.

1. If God existed would God communicate directly to everyone?
2. If God existed would God prove that He exists to everyone?

I am not asking if God could communicate directly to everyone or prove that He exists to everyone.
I am not asking if God should communicate directly to everyone or prove that He exists to everyone.

I am asking if God would God communicate directly to everyone or prove that He exists to everyone IF GOD EXISTED.

If you answer yes, please explain why you answered yes.
If you answer no, please explain why you answered no.

Thanks, Trailblazer

Depends from which religion and scriptures one gets their God from.

If its from the OT then I think he wouldn't necessarily communicate with everyone, but he would if he felt like it. In regards to 2) I don't think he would see a need to prove himself, because he would make sure that everyone knew. God in the OT is not exactly trying to hide himself

If its God of the NT, it depends on whether one believe Jesus were God, because if he were then he were communicating with whoever he got around to. But he obviously weren't especially good at making people aware/believe that he were God.
If Jesus weren't God, then he only communicated with Jesus really and apparently also didn't think it was worth proving himself to anyone.

So think it depends on which scriptures you get the God from

 

[RestlessSoul]

How could you speculate about it without any preconceived notions?

You couldn’t. But you almost certainly have some.

 

[Trailblazer]

If he didn't need helpers, then where do all the other gods come from?

That is a very good question. There are no 'other gods' because an Omnipotent God does not need any helpers.

The 'other gods' come from people's imaginations so they are imaginary gods, not real gods. People only imagine that they exist but in reality there is only one true God that actually exists and people hold many different conceptions of that God.

 

[followthewhitewabbit]

Atheists: If God existed would God do #1 or #2, as noted below?

These are two separate questions.

1. If God existed would God communicate directly to everyone?
2. If God existed would God prove that He exists to everyone?

I am not asking if God could communicate directly to everyone or prove that He exists to everyone.
I am not asking if God should communicate directly to everyone or prove that He exists to everyone.

I am asking if God would God communicate directly to everyone or prove that He exists to everyone IF GOD EXISTED.

If you answer yes, please explain why you answered yes.
If you answer no, please explain why you answered no.

Thanks, Trailblazer

I'm not gonna lie, I've been drinking....BUT...
If God communicated to everyone, then that would prove his existence to everyone...no?

 

[ChristineM]

Logically speaking, if God is All-Knowing and All-Wise, like the God portrayed in the Bible, then God would have to know the *best way* to communicate, of all the options that are available to Him.

Logically speaking, that God would select the *best method* of communication in order to accomplish His goals.

All knowing and all wise? Was this the same bible i read. What i read was a god who created everything end then didn't like his work so drowned it. An all knowing and all wise would have known enough an been wise enough not to make such a basic mistake in the first place. And then he repeats the mistake several times... All knowing and all wise? If this god exists then I think not.

According to the bible he did, he committed genocide to murder all those wgo wouldn't listen.

This is not the action of a logical being

 

[followthewhitewabbit]

I tend to believe the existence of things that communicate with me...

 

[RestlessSoul]

I guess but it's pure speculation on my behalf.

To speculate is human. If the Worimi people’s version makes most sense to you, then that could, if you were so inclined, speculatively try to strike up a conversation with Him (if it is a Him).

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Logically speaking, if God is All-Knowing and All-Wise, like the God portrayed in the Bible, then God would have to know the *best way* to communicate, of all the options that are available to Him.

Logically speaking, that God would select the *best method* of communication in order to accomplish His goals.

Then we must conclude -- on the evidence before us (a world full of disparate, warring religions over the millenia) that "His goals" are to sow discord by ensuring that the message cannot be uniformly understood.

Because, as you said, God is All-Knowing and All-Wise, and yet this is precisely how it turned out, and He must have known that it would.

 

[Trailblazer]

There is not enough in this to say one way or the other.

From the mere assumption that there is a creator God, it is impossible to say anything else about its character or personality. It may be evil and want to torture us (maybe that is why the universe was created, after all).

Maybe a creator God doesn't even know we exist. or, if it does, it might consider us beneath consideration.

It may also be the case that belief in the existence of God has nothing to do with our well-being either now or in the future. In that case, there might well be no reason to communicate or prove its existence.

That's right. If God exists, there is really no way to know anything about God, other than the scriptures that have been revealed through the Messengers of God, for people who believe those scriptures came from God.

Only in the case where there is a good God that cares about us and where belief in that God is relevant for our future well-being would that God need to communicate with us. And, in that case, it would be obligated to prove itself to everyone..

I agree that if there as such a good God that cares about us and belief in that God is relevant for our future well-being that God would communicate with us.... God would not need to communicate with us but He would communicate with us if He cared about us.

Why do you think that God would be obligated to prove itself to everyone?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Just some thoughts. I apologise if this is not what you wanted.

Anything we imagine would not be God but our imagination so God cannot be proven mentally because then we would be worshipping the image our own minds created.

But can we, having not perfect knowledge say categorically there is no Higher Being than man?

For me, I can only believe a God exists through His Signs. A non existent thing does not have signs. Proof the sun exists is it’s light and heat.

The greatest proof for me that God exists are His Manifestations or Perfect Beings. Buddha, Christ, Moses, Baha’u’llah are Signs of God. The light and warmth of Their teachings has never ended and continues to influence the lives of the majority of humanity thousands of years after Their passing.

What power did They possess that despite being opposed, crucified, exiled, imprisoned, Their followers slaughtered, still today captivate the hearts and minds of men.

Can anyone emulate this? No one has been able to. All I can say is that They possessed an invisible power not of this world. They attributed it to the ‘unknown’ or God the ‘unknowable Essence’ and explained to us that we were created in His Image and that He created us out of love.

But if we want to know everything about God then that’s impossible so for an atheist, instead of accepting the reality that a painting cannot fully understand the painter, will go on denying the painter ad infinitum despite its own existence being clear proof.

Why doesn’t God directly communicate to each of us so we can believe easily?

I believe it has to do with our spiritual development which is mainly why we are born into this earthly plane. I believe that just as we needed to develop our limbs and bodies in the womb to prepare us for this life, here we need to acquire virtues which will assist us to exist in the next life.

I believe that God wishes to share with us His Gifts and blessings and we all will receive them. We all received the gift of life. But His gifts are measured according to our deserving for He is just. There are higher gifts and lower gifts.


The highest gift is given to those who trust in God and believe in Him through faith.
Next would be through knowledge but limited because our minds cannot fully grasp God
Then prophecies or proofs from Holy Books
Then perhaps nature and the universe

Lower Gifts

Follow blindly what our families believe
Follow blindly what priests teach
Follow our own ego
Deny God altogether

So I think God wishes to bless us but His Gifts are graded and so not everyone will receive ‘heaven’ or ‘inner peace and contentment’.

What we receive I believe all depends on our own sincerity. So we can choose to follow our own egos and deny, or priests, or families, or question ourselves as to whether there might be a God.

I believe unless we have committed atrocities God will forgive us and bestow His Gifts on us continually even though we have opposed Him and His Messengers.

 

[John53]

To speculate is human. If the Worimi people’s version makes most sense to you, then that could, if you were so inclined, speculatively try to strike up a conversation with Him (if it is a Him).

It makes as much sense as any other version I've heard but it's mostly the local connection that interests me. I feel some camaraderie with the traditional owners of the land I live on.

 

[Trailblazer]

No. God would not communicate with anyone.

Communication is something done within social groups. If God is solitary (and your use of the singular God-with-a-capital-G suggests he would be), then he would have no more reason to be interested in communication than an octopus would.

You're talking about a being that's completely alien to us and that isn't socialized at all. There would be absolutely no reason to expect that such a being would be interested in - or be capable of - communicating with us, whether with all of humanity or indirectly through prophets/"messengers"/etc.

Yes, communication back and forth is what is done in social groups, but why would you think that the communication from God would go back and forth? I do not believe that it goes back and forth but rather it only goes one way, from God to humans.

If God loved and cared about humans there would be a reason to expect that such a being would be interested in communicating to us, if He has something to say that would benefit humans.

There is no reason to think that an Omnipotent God would not be capable of communicating to humans in whatever way He chose to such that humans would receive the communication.

No, but evidence for God would be apparent, roughly in proportion to how important God is to the universe.

... kinda like the Moon: the Moon isn't interested in "proving" that it exists, but its effects on us and the things around us also provide evidence for its existence.

I fully agree.

A God that can't be empirically demonstrated to be real to the same extent that the Moon can is a God that's less relevant to our observable universe than the Moon is.

I disagree, because you are assuming that if God were real God would be empirically demonstrable, but there is no reason to think that would be the case and every reason to believe that would not be the case, because IF God was empirically demonstrable THEN God would have been demonstrated to exist long, long ago.

So all you can say is that you are unwilling to believe that God exists unless God can be empirically demonstrated to exist and of course you have a lot if company.

 

[Polymath257]

Logically speaking, if God is All-Knowing and All-Wise, like the God portrayed in the Bible, then God would have to know the *best way* to communicate, of all the options that are available to Him.

Logically speaking, that God would select the *best method* of communication in order to accomplish His goals.

You are changing the assumptions. You were talking about a creator God, not an all-knowing, all-wise God or even the God described in the Bible (I disagree that the God of the Bible is portrayed as all-knowing and all-wise).

And there is no reason a creator God would even be aware of us, let alone care about us in any way.

But after you bought the car we would know if it was red or blue.

This is an exercise in logic.
So, if God exists we can know certain things about how God operates, or should I say how God does not operate.

Is there any evidence that God has communicated directly to everyone?
Is there is any evidence that God has proven that He exists to everyone?

No, there is no evidence that shows that either one of those has ever occurred.

All we have to do is ask people if God has communicated to them directly in order to know if this is the case.
If people say that God has not communicated to them then we can logically deduce that if God exists God would not communicate directly to everyone...

Since atheists exist we can logically deduce that God has not proven that He exists to everyone.
That means that if God existed God would not prove that He exists to everyone.

OK, and by the above reasoning, that means that if God exists, it is either unaware of us, doesn't care about us, or can't figure out how to communicate with us. All of which are consistent with a creator God.

 

[Neuropteron]

Atheists: If God existed would God do #1 or #2, as noted below?

These are two separate questions.

1. If God existed would God communicate directly to everyone?
2. If God existed would God prove that He exists to everyone?

I am not asking if God could communicate directly to everyone or prove that He exists to everyone.
I am not asking if God should communicate directly to everyone or prove that He exists to everyone.

I am asking if God would God communicate directly to everyone or prove that He exists to everyone IF GOD EXISTED.

If you answer yes, please explain why you answered yes.
If you answer no, please explain why you answered no.

Thanks, Trailblazer

Hi,

I don't understand the question.
Could , should, would ?

If he could, should he ?
or if should would he ?
or would he if he should ?

 

[Trailblazer]

If God loves us as many people claim, then I would expect God would communicate with us, yes.

But why do you think that God would communicate directly to everyone? Why would that be necessary?

The biblical chap is portrayed as a fragile, jealous lunatic. So I would think, yes.

Well, since there are still atheists that means that if God exists God has not proven that He exists to everyone, and that means that if God exists God would not prove that He exists to everyone.

That would mean that God does not need everyone to believe in Him because an omnipotent God could surely prove that He exists to everyone IF He needed everyone to believe in Him.

 

[Trailblazer]

Okay, and what are his or her characteristics beside existing and "creating the universe"?

Certain attributes are unique to God. Only God is Eternal, Holy, Unchanging, Impassable, Infinite, Omnipresent, All-Powerful, All-Knowing, All-Wise, Infallible, Self-Existent, Self-Sufficient, Sovereign, and Immaterial, so nobody except God can have those attributes.

Some of God's other attributes that humans share are Good, Loving, Gracious, Merciful, Just, Righteous, Forgiving, Patient.

 

[Father Heathen]

Yep.

You deny the sun and rain dosent exist?

God in all its purported glory and omnipresence can't even match up to those simple truths.

What about radio waves?

 

[Trailblazer]

So you're assuming not only that God exists, but that the universe we see around us is pretty much as we see it now?

I do not assume that, I believe it.

That's not how I read your question. I see the universe around us as godless, so the existence of God would probably imply that the universe would be very different from the one we currently live in.

Why do you think it would be different? Different in what way?
If God exists the universe we see is exactly how it would be if God exists. Do you understand why that would be the case?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

But why do you think that God would communicate directly to everyone? Why would that be necessary?

What would you do with your children? Tell just one (maybe the first-born) what you are thinking, what you want, what you expect of all of them, whether (and how much) you approve of each of them -- and then hope that first-born passes the message along to the rest? If you did that, I assure you that only one of your children would ever respect or really love you.

 

[Trailblazer]

As an atheist, I don't make any claims about what a God would or wouldn't do.

And I thank God for that because there are atheists who say what God would do if God existed and that is how I got the idea to post this thread. In fact, there is one atheist who I have been posting to for about seven years on other forums who says that if God does not do the things he thinks that God would do if God existed (#1 and #2 on my OP) that is a reason to believe that God does not exist.

Of course the irony is that if God existed we all know God does not do #1 or #2 as per my OP, so that means that IF God existed THEN God would not do either one of those things. Unfortunately, after seven years this atheist poster does not understand the logical implications of what he believes. It is logically impossible that God would do what God does not do if God exists.