Atheists: If God existed would God……

[Trailblazer]

And I am absolutely sure that you are dead wrong -- and on just as much evidence as you have.

How do you know I am dead wrong? What evidence do you have?

Got any idea how to resolve that?

I mean, if we disagreed on whether spider silk or steel were stronger, we could probably find a way to settle the matter.

Yes, I have an idea how to resolve this. We can agree to disagree, since neither one of us has any proof that we are right.

 

[epronovost]

I see no reason why a deity would do that. Why do you think a deity would do that?
Please bear in mind that the deity is not a human being.

You did described it as loving in a human sense of the term. In other words, it's friendly and kind. Humans love more than anything else to make friends and interact with others and even with non-humans. If God is loving in a human sense and be everywhere at all time, he could basically be friendly towards all of humanity or at least a solid chink of it. To be loving in a human sense of the term, you have to do loving things and all loving things human do are socially interactive.

 

[Trailblazer]

If a person assumes the basic Abrahamic God exists the question is why did it stop talking to people? If it exists it's clear that being quiet has caused a lot of division and doubt, and acting on behalf of the absent God in deadly ways. A God SHOULD say something. That is hasn't only suggests it is incompetent, is a sadist, or doesn't exist.

God has never stopped talking to people, but God only does so through Messengers, and God will continue talking to them as long as humanity exists.

 

[Trailblazer]

Oh, that one. It wouldn't communicate because it left after creating the universe to create other universes.

I do not believe God ever left or stopped communicating...
What other universes?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Since these Messengers are both divine and human they can understand communication from God and relay the information that they receive back to humans in a way that humans can understand it.

That may be true for a minority of 19th Century Iranian Shia Muslims habituated to thinking about Imams, but today's world asks for sufficient proof - of 'divine' and 'divinity'. The vision of a 'Heavenly Maiden' is not sufficient.

I am asking what God .. do, besides God?

God, God and God. As a first step, prove the existence of God.

 

[F1fan]

God has never stopped talking to people, but God only does so through Messengers, and God will continue talking to them as long as humanity exists.

That's is not a valid and rational claim. Messengers are not trustworthy. That they claim they talk to God is nothing they can verify objectively.

 

[Trailblazer]

You might want to look a little more deeply into your logic -- which for the record, isn't logical and doesn't hold.

Start, for example with being all-knowing, then creating something and already knowing how that will turn out, and then saying the creation was the problem.

For goodness sakes, thinking is not that hard!

There is nothing wrong with my logic. Just because God knows something is going to happen that does not mean that God causes it to happen. There is no connection between knowledge and causality.

God is all-knowing, so God knows everything that has ever happened, what is happening now, and what will happen in the future, but what God knows does not cause anything to happen. Knowing something is going to happen is not what causes it to happen. What causes it to happen is when a person makes a choice and acts on it. Humans are the problem because humans cause things to happen.

“Every act ye meditate is as clear to Him as is that act when already accomplished. There is none other God besides Him. His is all creation and its empire. All stands revealed before Him; all is recorded in His holy and hidden Tablets. This fore-knowledge of God, however, should not be regarded as having caused the actions of men, just as your own previous knowledge that a certain event is to occur, or your desire that it should happen, is not and can never be the reason for its occurrence.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 150

 

[F1fan]

God has never stopped talking to people, but God only does so through Messengers, and God will continue talking to them as long as humanity exists.

But let's say this is true, God surely didn't help humanity by letting bad theists do bad works. It should have talked to these bad actors because they are doing evil acts on God's behalf. God does what, talk to a few select people, many of whom no one has heard about? Bad plan. I could do much better than your God.

 

[Trailblazer]

Because it didn't create humans, it created the universe. Everything else is the result of the physics of the Big Bang.

Hypothetically it is possible that God knew nothing about humans because God did not create humans. In fact, I do not believe that God created humans, I believe that humans evolved. However, I believe that God set the process of evolution in motion.

You are adding more and more assumptions. How many single, independent things do you believe about god?

I believe lots of things about God.

 

[Trailblazer]

I see -- so you now declare that you know what God "is not."

I can tell you that God is not a human, it does not take a PhD degree in physics to tell you that.

Would you care to take the next tiny step and tell us what God "is?"

I can only tell you what 'I believe' God is.

God in the Baháʼí Faith

The Baháʼí view of God is essentially monotheistic. God is the imperishable, uncreated being who is the source of all existence.[1] He is described as "a personal God, unknowable, inaccessible, the source of all Revelation, eternal, omniscient, omnipresent and almighty".[2][3] Though transcendent and inaccessible directly, his image is reflected in his creation. The purpose of creation is for the created to have the capacity to know and love its creator.[4] God communicates his will and purpose to humanity through intermediaries, known as Manifestations of God, who are the prophets and messengers that have founded religions from prehistoric times up to the present day.[5]

The Baháʼí teachings state that there is only one God and that his essence is absolutely inaccessible from the physical realm of existence and that, therefore, his reality is completely unknowable. Thus, all of humanity's conceptions of God which have been derived throughout history are mere manifestations of the human mind and not at all reflective of the nature of God's essence. While God's essence is inaccessible, a subordinate form of knowledge is available by way of mediation by divine messengers, known as Manifestations of God.

Personal God

While the Baháʼí writings teach of a personal god who is a being with a personality (including the capacity to reason and to feel love), they clearly state that this does not imply a human or physical form.[2] Shoghi Effendi writes:

What is meant by personal God is a God Who is conscious of His creation, Who has a Mind, a Will, a Purpose, and not, as many scientists and materialists believe, an unconscious and determined force operating in the universe. Such conception of the Divine Being, as the Supreme and ever present Reality in the world, is not anthropomorphic, for it transcends all human limitations and forms, and does by no means attempt to define the essence of Divinity which is obviously beyond any human comprehension. To say that God is a personal Reality does not mean that He has a physical form, or does in any way resemble a human being. To entertain such belief would be sheer blasphemy.[15][16]

Read more: God in the Baháʼí Faith

See, this is the step that none of the God Salesmen will ever do. Why not? Because they cannot.

No, none of the other God Salesman can tell you, but I can, as noted above.

 

[Aupmanyav]

There is nothing wrong with my logic.

As you will agree your logic is not the same as the logic of other people. Hope you will provide some evidence of existence of this God.

I believe lots of things about God.

You do. Tell us as to why you believe so? What is your proof for it.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Atheists: If God existed would God do #1 or #2, as noted below?

These are two separate questions.

1. If God existed would God communicate directly to everyone?
2. If God existed would God prove that He exists to everyone?

I am not asking if God could communicate directly to everyone or prove that He exists to everyone.
I am not asking if God should communicate directly to everyone or prove that He exists to everyone.

I am asking if God would God communicate directly to everyone or prove that He exists to everyone IF GOD EXISTED.

If you answer yes, please explain why you answered yes.
If you answer no, please explain why you answered no.

Thanks, Trailblazer

Seems like a rather silly question to ask someone who has no reason to believe that any gods exist. But I'll play along and make up some god entity in my head and I'll say YES, the god entity I made up in head WOULD communicate directly to everyone or prove that it exists.

I said yes because I decided that's what the god entity I made up in my head would do.

What exactly have we accomplished here?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

How do you know I am dead wrong? What evidence do you have?

Yes, I have an idea how to resolve this. We can agree to disagree, since neither one of us has any proof that we are right.

Exactly! I've none, you've none.

I live in a world that doesn't look like there's a god in it, you seem to see a god based on who knows what, because you would provide anything.

Here's the trick. Let's each go into a bare room, nothing at all in it. Then we'll try to assess whether or not there is an invisible, non-corporeal, undetectable dragon in that room. You may say, "well, I don't see one, but I don't know, there could be one. So I guess maybe there is."

I, on the other hand, will say, "why the heck, in this bare room, would I even entertain such a question?"

So good. No proof.

Then comes the next question: on what basis do you suppose there might be a dragon (or a god, or fairies, or whatever else you'd like to imagine)? And I say to you it is not based on anything outside of your own mind.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

No, none of the other God Salesman can tell you, but I can, as noted above.

No, you can't. You DO, but you can't. It's pure imagination based on absolutely nothing you can present or demonstrate.

As I've said before, you are permitted to believe anything you like, but you believing something does not make it reality -- to anyone but you.

 

[F1fan]

Hypothetically it is possible that God knew nothing about humans because God did not create humans. In fact, I do not believe that God created humans, I believe that humans evolved. However, I believe that God set the process of evolution in motion.

I believe lots of things about God.

But you have no knowledge. Knowledge requires facts.

 

[Trailblazer]

We are such an insignificant aspect of the universe that it may well be that we are an unintended side-effect that simply hasn't been noticed yet.

Just because a thing creates another thing doesn't imply it knows everything about it.

No, not necessarily.

In that case, God wasn't bright enough to figure out a form of communication that worked,

God's method of communication has worked because only 7% of the world population are confirmed atheists so that means that 93% of the world population believes in God.

According to sociologists Ariela Keysar and Juhem Navarro-Rivera's review of numerous global studies on atheism, there are 450 to 500 million positive atheists and agnostics worldwide (7% of the world's population), with China having the most atheists in the world (200 million convinced atheists). Demographics of atheism - Wikipedia

God's method of communication actually worked quite well because 84 percent of the world population has a faith. Because most faiths have a religious Founder or what I call a Messenger that means most people believe in God because of a Messenger. We know that Christians and Muslims believe in a Messenger and they comprise 55% of the world population. It does not matter if you call them a Messenger; they are holy men who founded the religions, so they are intermediaries between God and man. Sure, there are a few believers who believe in God but not a Messenger but that is not the norm. The point is that with no Messengers or holy men very few people would believe in God.

 

[Trailblazer]

All that means is, in as much as humans are concerned, God is amoral. If God is simply not concerned with the well-being of humans, there would be no necessity to communicate.

If you want to apply the word 'good' to God, then that goodness must be meaningful in human terms. Otherwise it is irrelevant to human concerns and the word 'good' is misused.

God is concerned with the well-being of humans and that is why God communicates to humans.
The word "good" can be understood in human terms but that does not mean that God steps down and acts like a human.

 

[F1fan]

No, not necessarily.

God's method of communication has worked because only 7% of the world population are confirmed atheists so that means that 93% of the world population believes in God.

Logical fallacy, appeal to popularity. As an example, about 72% of republicans believe that trump won the election. By your way of thinking they are correct.

Numbers are irrelevant to whether an idea is true.

 

[F1fan]

God is concerned with the well-being of humans and that is why God communicates to humans..

How did God communicate to Jews to warn them of Nazism? Or did God not feel concerned for them?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Yes, communication back and forth is what is done in social groups, but why would you think that the communication from God would go back and forth? I do not believe that it goes back and forth but rather it only goes one way, from God to humans.

You asked others for their opinion. Why are you trying to make this about you?