Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, believers don’t say what they would expect to see if God exists because we believe that what we see is what we would observe in a world where God exists, since we believe that God exists.But you literally just said that believers don't consider what they'd expect to see if (their) god existed.
I fully agree. I do not believe that God has any needs or wants, is ever mistaken, or ever changes His mind.That depends on the believer. There are loads of different definitions of gods (I'd argue one for each and every theist who ever existed). Many people (including many other theists) find elements of those definitions inconsistent with observed reality.
For example, I personally don't think a being deemed to be omnipotent and omniscient can also have anything we'd recognise as needs or wants and could never be mistaken or change their mind.
I believe that whatever is in God's mind (whatever God knows) is what He has always known since God knows everything without regard to time since God does not exist in time. The essential knowledge of God surrounds the realities of all things, before, during, and after their existence in this material world.
I am one of those people, since I believe that anything that is inconsistent with known facts is superstition.There are also people who describe their god as having created the world 6000 years ago or flooded it 4000 years ago and plenty of people consider that as inconsistent with observed evidence.
No, given the lack of evidence that any God has ever communicated directly to everyone, no such God can exist.No. I think some of the definitions of gods presented by some believers would carry the implication and so, given the lack of evidence for such consequence, that suggests that specifically defined god doesn't exist.
Again, the key point is that gods are defined by theists, not atheists. Atheists assess all the different proposed gods they're aware of and, if no definition has convinced them, they remain atheist for the time being.
Thanks for explaining how you think atheists reason and come to their conclusion that none of the gods proposed by believers exist. In my extensive experience posting to atheists regularly on various forums for about eight years, the only reason atheists have ever given me for their disbelief is lack of evidence for God.
If a God was defined that made sense to you do you think that would make a difference or would you retain disbelief owing to the lack of evidence or proof that God exists?
For one example, I believe that every human has a rational soul that survives the death of the body. the human soul is not an entity that can be studied and understood by science since it is immaterial. We can only know it by its signs.That is really evading my question; What exactly is it about your specific type of religion that renders it specially immune to scientific study in a way that absolutely nothing else is (note that human inability to access or understand is not that same as something being beyond science).
It is true that much of what humans so is unconscious, since more than 90% of human thought resides in the unconscious mind. That means we all have many unconscious thoughts driving our behavior that we are unaware of.I didn't say you were necessarily doing it consciously.That is why this kind of discussion needs to move entirely away from faith, belief and religion to focus entirely on fact and reality, including recognising and accepting out limitations and weaknesses (like faith, belief and religion).
How do you think that a discussion about religion can move entirely away from faith, belief and religion and focus entirely on fact and reality?
Are you saying that you think that it might be possible to know God through observation, inquiry, or information?That is your belief. You've not even tried to establish that inability as truth.
As Baha’i, I believe that there is only one true God, the God that was revealed by various Messengers of God throughout all of human history. The reasons there are many different conceptions of God is because (a) God was described differently in the scriptures of the different religions, and (b) religious believers have misinterpreted what is written about God in their scriptures.Out of interest, do you believe this limitation only applies to the god you believe in or does it apply to all the other gods different people believe (or did believe) in, including all the ones that would directly contradict the existence of yours?
To answer your question, since I believe there is only one true God, I think that this limitation applies to that God. I believe we can only know about God through the revelations of the Messengers of God, not through observation, inquiry, or information.