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ATHEISTS ONLY: The 'problem' of Islam

zenzero

Its only a Label
Friend kai,

Good question, i dont think its higher, but it certainly is the most violent.

On the question of violence; can you elaborate as to where this *VIOLENCE* stems from? or even love?

Begining is an end in itself.
LOve & rgds
 

kai

ragamuffin
Friend kai,



On the question of violence; can you elaborate as to where this *VIOLENCE* stems from? or even love?

Begining is an end in itself.
LOve & rgds

violence: i think is enabled by the "us and them" aspect especially when the "them" can be thought of as something less than human beings.

love: can only shine through when your fellow man is thought of as "fellow man"
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
Then surely you must be against the Jewish people in Britain having their own courts, as well as laws such as the Loi Gayssot in France, which undoubtedly suits the interests of a single group?

BBC NEWS | UK | Religious courts already in use
"British Jews, particularly the orthodox, will frequently turn to their own religious courts, the Beth Din, to resolve civil disputes, covering issues as diverse as business and divorce."

Yes its called Arbitration which even if you worshipped a coat hanger with a feather duster stuck to it anyone can use it and is carried out within a framework.
 

zenzero

Its only a Label
Friend Kai,

iolence: i think is enabled by the "us and them" aspect especially when the "them" can be thought of as something less than human beings.

love: can only shine through when your fellow man is thought of as "fellow man"

Thank you for your response.
However, The root of hate/violence as you said is *US* & *THEM* which stems from the MIND which is the *EGO*, *I*, *WE*.
The no-mind is where love comes from.
Duality of I/god, hate/love etc all comes from the mind. Mind because it thinks as is its nature. Once the mind is stilled by being conscious/aware then thoughts do not arise and one is in harmony with the whole/existence/tao/etc. then it is love.
Love & rgds
 

zenzero

Its only a Label
Friends,

The 'problem' of Islam

We shall discuss the soul of the OP later BUT befoire that let us see what is wrong with people practising islam?

They do not participate in any other sections other than islam or some very general topics.ALL OTHERS take interests and participate, contribute/criticise/etc on all other religions including their own which is found not so with followers of islam.
In the thread *Pakistani terrorists attack India* found responses from most people except those who follow islam even though they may be living elsewhere and not part of any terror.

Once this is known then automatically the OP will be known.

This is the personal understanding.
Love & rgds
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
I am (maybe unnecessarily) becoming increasingly worried about the rise in population of Islam in Europe. In France the figure is almost 10%. In my own homeland it is half that, but rising. In my current country (Sweden) it is about the same.

We have already witnessed the appeasment and relaxing of certain laws to allow for some involvement of Sharia courts.

My problem, as an atheist, and a humanist who currently enjoys a pretty decent amount of freedom of speech and of expression, is that if the Islamic population were to rise to a certain level, it would allow for the (maybe remote) possibility of an Islamic biased, or indeed Islamic based government being elected. At least it could start a rise in laws that would restrict the freedoms and protection I currently enjoy.

I can't think of a single government that is Islamic by nature and not secular, where the levels of freedoms, and of human rights, are not severely compromised.

Now, as a caring, humanitarian, and humanist I would never advocate extreme measures to combat this (if indeed it needs to be combatted), but I am genuinely worried for the future, if not mine, then my childs.

What non-violent steps are possible?
Does anyone else have this worry?

What non violent steps could we take,well i have made sure that my children are aware of what Islam is,its not just a religion its a way of life with only one reference book.
Any other religion is content with living in a secular country but with Muslims this isn't the case as they see state and religion as one and the same,they cannot accept any other religion and so are stuck in the 7th century.
As you so rightly say Sharia law is poking its ugly head into all of our countries,i would have a problem with any law that interferes with Law or Politics but what makes Sharia stand out is the Human rights issues that come with it.
If Muslim immigrants want Sharia law they should perhaps stay where they are or go to live in an Islamic state such as Iran or Saudi which have a rich menu of punishments via the Shia courts.
Believe me you are not the only one with this worry IMO every right thinking Human being has this worry,we just need to inform people what Islam is all about.
 

Gharib

I want Khilafah back
I am (maybe unnecessarily) becoming increasingly worried about the rise in population of Islam in Europe. In France the figure is almost 10%. In my own homeland it is half that, but rising. In my current country (Sweden) it is about the same.

We have already witnessed the appeasment and relaxing of certain laws to allow for some involvement of Sharia courts.

My problem, as an atheist, and a humanist who currently enjoys a pretty decent amount of freedom of speech and of expression, is that if the Islamic population were to rise to a certain level, it would allow for the (maybe remote) possibility of an Islamic biased, or indeed Islamic based government being elected. At least it could start a rise in laws that would restrict the freedoms and protection I currently enjoy.

I can't think of a single government that is Islamic by nature and not secular, where the levels of freedoms, and of human rights, are not severely compromised.

Now, as a caring, humanitarian, and humanist I would never advocate extreme measures to combat this (if indeed it needs to be combatted), but I am genuinely worried for the future, if not mine, then my childs.

What non-violent steps are possible?
Does anyone else have this worry?

islam doesn't take peoples freedom away, it gives way more than anyother coutry, or religion, but we do have strict laws about some things and we do have capital punishment in place.
 

Gharib

I want Khilafah back
What non violent steps could we take,well i have made sure that my children are aware of what Islam is,its not just a religion its a way of life with only one reference book.
Any other religion is content with living in a secular country but with Muslims this isn't the case as they see state and religion as one and the same,they cannot accept any other religion and so are stuck in the 7th century.
As you so rightly say Sharia law is poking its ugly head into all of our countries,i would have a problem with any law that interferes with Law or Politics but what makes Sharia stand out is the Human rights issues that come with it.
If Muslim immigrants want Sharia law they should perhaps stay where they are or go to live in an Islamic state such as Iran or Saudi which have a rich menu of punishments via the Shia courts.
Believe me you are not the only one with this worry IMO every right thinking Human being has this worry,we just need to inform people what Islam is all about.


our islam is our state, it is our religion, it is our science, it is our life (way of life) and many more.
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
our islam is our state, it is our religion, it is our science, it is our life (way of life) and many more.

And so it follows that your religion would want to make it our way of life,problem is Europe has had the misery of empowered religions in our history so when a religion such as yours which includes State ,Law and religion there is going to be a problem.
If you religion is so great why do Muslims come to Europe and not go to Saudi or any other Islamic State where your religion encompasses everything from A to Z.
Your religion accepts nothing else but what is written in your book and by its very nature wants to impose itself on other cultures and religions.
We obviously enjoy the amount of freedom we have regardless of politics,faith or gendre whereas its a very different story with your religion,one only needs to look at justice in the Islamic states to see this.
 

Panda

42?
Premium Member
*MOD POST*

This is the second reminder in this thread that only ATHEISTS are allowed to post here. All other posters are violating DIR rules.
 

zenzero

Its only a Label
Friend eselam,

our islam is our state, it is our religion, it is our science, it is our life (way of life) and many more.

You mean to state that you and all muslims are outside HUMANITY?
You are diffrent humans and are not one with those who take the name of god/bhagwan/etc?

Love & rgds
 

frg001

Complex bunch of atoms
Friends,



We shall discuss the soul of the OP later BUT befoire that let us see what is wrong with people practising islam?

They do not participate in any other sections other than islam or some very general topics.ALL OTHERS take interests and participate, contribute/criticise/etc on all other religions including their own which is found not so with followers of islam.
In the thread *Pakistani terrorists attack India* found responses from most people except those who follow islam even though they may be living elsewhere and not part of any terror.

Once this is known then automatically the OP will be known.

This is the personal understanding.
Love & rgds
I have no 'soul' . When I die I will simply slowly return to my constituent molecules. When the human body stops, then it stops... end of. But again...OT
 

frg001

Complex bunch of atoms
What non violent steps could we take,well i have made sure that my children are aware of what Islam is,its not just a religion its a way of life with only one reference book.
Any other religion is content with living in a secular country but with Muslims this isn't the case as they see state and religion as one and the same,they cannot accept any other religion and so are stuck in the 7th century.
As you so rightly say Sharia law is poking its ugly head into all of our countries,i would have a problem with any law that interferes with Law or Politics but what makes Sharia stand out is the Human rights issues that come with it.
If Muslim immigrants want Sharia law they should perhaps stay where they are or go to live in an Islamic state such as Iran or Saudi which have a rich menu of punishments via the Shia courts.
Believe me you are not the only one with this worry IMO every right thinking Human being has this worry,we just need to inform people what Islam is all about.

Of course, I will educate my child about the horrors of Islam, and any other religion that desires world domination, but the problem I see is that people from Islam are not just coming in (which I have no problem with), but they also average more children. Those children are indoctrinated and thus the percentages are swinging...

I am totally against violence, or extreme measures, but do not want to see our futures, and more importantly, my sons, and his potential childrens futures destroyed. Which is what I seriously beleve will happen if no steps are taken.

I am more worried about this than global warming.

The sad thing is I can only see bloodshed on the horizon...in all out war. And the dark side of me hopes that, if that is to be the case, then sooner rather than later is better...while those not brainwashed still have a chance.

The film "zombie apocalypse" springs to mind... ;(
 

zenzero

Its only a Label
Friend frg001,

I have no 'soul' . When I die I will simply slowly return to my constituent molecules. When the human body stops, then it stops... end of. But again...OT

The soul of the OP is not whether you have a soul?
The responses asked for were on:
You mean to state that you and all muslims are outside HUMANITY?
You are diffrent humans and are not one with those who take the name of god/bhagwan/etc?

and
They do not participate in any other sections other than islam or some very general topics.ALL OTHERS take interests and participate, contribute/criticise/etc on all other religions including their own which is found not so with followers of islam.
In the thread *Pakistani terrorists attack India* found responses from most people except those who follow islam even though they may be living elsewhere and not part of any terror.

Everyone here would be delighted to haer your responses on the above points.
Love & rgds
 

frg001

Complex bunch of atoms
Friend frg001,



The soul of the OP is not whether you have a soul?
The responses asked for were on:


and


Everyone here would be delighted to haer your responses on the above points.
Love & rgds

Ok my mistake.
Difficult one. I used to be a regular contributor here. But I guess the Islam thing has got me more worried these days and brought me back again.

Religions on the whole don't really interest me. Other than in a negative way. I see little if zero merit in most world religions. They tend to preach distrust in other religions by their very nature, and they each believe that their particular set of beliefs is right. They stunt humanities growth and cause or at least prolong conflicts.
So obviously I am drawn to the particular religion/s that are threatening me, and my way of life most...Islam.
If I was a US citizen, I would be here campaining against the loony christian right and the dangerous nonsense of Intelligent design. Luckily I live in a far more open minded society in Europe, where being atheist is as normal as using butter on bread.
Sorry I am babbling
 

zenzero

Its only a Label
Friend frg001,
Sorry for bumping in this way.
It is clear this is not for you to respond but other followers of islam on RF.
Personally am neither for or against any god/satan.
Any way it is fine as they are just part of dualities.
By the way, you are yet to click the frienship request sent.
Love & rgds
 

frg001

Complex bunch of atoms
Friend frg001,
Sorry for bumping in this way.
It is clear this is not for you to respond but other followers of islam on RF.
Personally am neither for or against any god/satan.
Any way it is fine as they are just part of dualities.
By the way, you are yet to click the frienship request sent.
Love & rgds

Ah. Sorry, but I purposely put this particular thread here in Atheism, as I don't wish for an argument with Muslims. They are not allowed to come here and argue. Maybe a new thread is necessary for this.

Ah the friend request. Well I tend to delete those, as I really don't know anyone here so well. If I stick around, and get a handle on how people seem to be, then that would be a time to begin adding friends. This isn't a slight on you, just a precaution I take with some online subscriptions, especially such as this where words can be taken to be offensive to some even if that isn't the intention.
You are welcome to add me on LastFM if you use it however... I will PM you the username if you wish.
 
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