Atheists: What would be evidence of God’s existence?

[PureX]

I've yet to find a theist who can justify that their belief in their god(s) meets even their own standard of evidence.

What a theist "believes" is irrelevant to the assertion of truth that they are positing. And I think your comment is false. What you are encountering is inarticulation, and you're inserting your own standards in that vacuum.

 

[Dropship]

Christians are kool, calm, collected, unflappable, humourous and good-natured because they've mindmelded with Jesus; it's something nonchristians can't understand..

"On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you" (John 14:20)

 

[ratiocinator]

Boris is not perfect but he's the best we've got right now, for examp he wants to introduce legislation to cut down on immigration.

Yeah, we don't want all these nasty foreigners do we? And as for these refugees fleeing persecution, famine, and war, well **** them, eh? So compassionate, so loving.

Jesus on mass immigration-
"It is not good to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs....do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces" (Matt 15:26,Matt 7:6)

You think immigrants are dogs and swine, eh?

31“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

-- Matthew 25​

If I believed in Christianity, I would fear for your soul.

Of course, this also perfectly illustrates why it's useless relying on the bible. Which bits do you believe and how do you interpret them?

 

[PureX]

Christians are kool, calm, collected, unflappable, humourous and good-natured because they've mindmelded with Jesus; it's something nonchristians can't understand..

Some are, some aren't. Some are able to articulate the reasons for their faith in the idea of God, and some aren't.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

"Belief" is not relevant to anyone but the believer. Playing the "persuasion game" is just a big waste of time and energy. All it's really for is ego-stroking. Philosophical discourse isn't about persuading anyone of anything. It's about ideological exposition. We share how we see and understand the world so that we can all see further through each other's eyes and minds.

You and I have very different ideas about what is relevant, and the value of persuasion/convincing. I have gotten (and I believe given) value through dialectic. I have taught and been taught using that method. It seems that your endeavors in that department weren't quite as positive if you have so little regard for the process now.

Belief is irrelevant to anyone but the believer. What matters is the proposition being claimed as true, and why it's being presumed so by the claimant. Their job is to share that thought process, and our job is to try and understand it (not to discredit it).

That's not how I see it at all. What matters to me about the proposition being claimed to be true is whether or not it is. Their job, if they want to be believed, is to present a convincing argument. My job, if I want my fund of knowledge to contain as close as possible only correct beliefs, is to evaluate the argument, and if it is fallacious, recognize it as such, and not accept the claim, not try to see it through their eyes. If their thinking is obviously flawed from the beginning, why would anyone want to see any further through such eyes?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

What a theist "believes" is irrelevant to the assertion of truth that they are positing.

Most people use the term "belief" to describe the thing that someone asserts as true, if they accept it as true themselves.

If you're trying to split some weird hair here, I don't really care to learn about the semantics of how you personally use those terms.

And I think your comment is false. What you are encountering is inarticulation, and you're inserting your own standards in that vacuum.

Sure: I suppose that we could assume that the reason why theists can't give a rational reason for their beliefs - even when judged against their own standards of evidence - is that they're incapable of articulating their reasons even though they have valid ones.

This would involve assuming that they're insincere when they describe their beliefs - or what they claim are their beliefs, anyway - and it would involve disregarding the fact that they're generally capable of articulating themselves generally, but yes, we could do that.

Now... why would we do that?

 

[Dropship]

Jesus on mass immigration-
"It is not good to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs....do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces" (Matt 15:26,Matt 7:6)
And on the same theme John said- "...many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world...do not take them into your house or welcome them." (2 John 1:7-11)

Yeah, we don't want all these nasty foreigners do we? And as for these refugees fleeing persecution, famine, and war, well **** them, eh? So compassionate, so loving.
You think immigrants are dogs and swine, eh?

Jesus said it, not me, so you'd better try arguing it out with him when you meet him..
Nobody minds genuine refugees coming here in reasonable numbers, but most are just scrounging parasites who want to sponge off us, and anybody who'd prefer seeing their tax money going to supporting them instead of their own family and kids can't be very good hubs and parents...

 

[F1fan]

The establishment goons are everywhere, in education, TV and films, politics and are too many to name individually.

What a strange problem, there are so many you can't even name 10. It's almost as if you have no idea what you are talking about.

They all try to push their warped and twisted agendas on us, for example the mass immigration thing is their attempt to swamp Christianity and ruin our countries, and if anybody speaks against it, they get called "racist".

I would ask for specific details and examples but I doubt you have any. You are very good good at vague and absurd accusations, very poor at explaining that you are correct.

 

[F1fan]

That is meaningless convoluted jargon and nobody could ever understand what you are referring to. That is exactly what you want, obfuscation, because you have nothing to bring to the table. Obfuscate is exactly what atheists do when they cannot point to anything specific that I did. Been there done that, for nine years, so I know the drill.

Actually the members who demonstrate good critical thinking skills have ALL pointed out your poor standard of evidence. Your post here is an attempt to discredit Sub Zone with an inaccurate description of what is going on. It is UNTRUE that atheists "cannot point to anything specific that I did". We point it out daily. We can all see how your fallacies are pointed out and explained, sometimes is great detail. How do you think you can get away with saying that this never happened when we see it for ourselves?

 

[ratiocinator]

Jesus said it, not me, so you'd better try arguing it out with him when you meet him..

1. We actually have no idea what Jesus (assuming he was actually a real person at all) said, all the accounts were written long after the supposed events.
2. He's also supposed to have said what I quoted, but you just prefer to ignore that, I guess, in order not to interfere with your own prejudice.
3. You have yet to give me even the slightest hint of the merest suspicion of the tiniest morsel of a rational reason to think that I ever will meet him.

Nobody minds genuine refugees coming here in reasonable numbers, but most are just scrounging parasites who want to sponge off us, and anybody who'd prefer seeing their tax money going to supporting them instead of their own family and kids can't be very good hubs and parents...

Immigrants (especially from the EU, which is the only place we had 'unlimited immigration' from) were a net economic benefit to the country. It was a win-win. Racism and fear of 'others' (basically hatred) was the only 'justification' to stop it.

 

[F1fan]

Most people use the term "belief" to describe the thing that someone asserts as true, if they accept it as true themselves.

If you're trying to sit some weird hair here, I don't really care to learn about the semantics of how you personally use those terms.

It seems to me a tactic similar to "God of the gaps" in that the use of language improperly can force a gap to shoe horn their God into, and in debate there's some intent to redefine words to create some other, and convoluted, scenario where reason doesn't apply. It's the ploy of trying to force God into existence with words. Tricky language. Can it bluff savvy thinkers? No.

 

[Dropship]

What a strange problem, there are so many you can't even name 10. It's almost as if you have no idea what you are talking about...

Like I said, Estab goons are EVERYWHERE by the truckload..
As a Buddhist you and your mates stage anti-government protests against them in other countries as in this pic-

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Jesus said it, not me

You brought the words here. That makes them your opinion. It doesn't matter if Jesus ever said those words as well. Nor does that make them wise or kind.

Maybe you should be reading Buddha instead.

most are just scrounging parasites who want to sponge off us,

I prefer the values of secular humanism. It's a humanity-based ideology that embodies the Golden Rule. Humanists see them as human beings with the same wants and needs as themselves, not as parasites.

anybody who'd prefer seeing their tax money going to supporting them instead of their own family and kids can't be very good hubs and parents

It's not an either/or unless you're just scraping by. I am happy to help those "parasites." Also, I don't share your opinion of what makes for good parents. That isn't what I taught my children, and it's not the example I would want to present to them. Like my parents before me did for me, I taught my children the Golden Rule, which means I embodied it for them, not just said it, which is how morality is actually taught. We are all secular humanists (liberal, rational atheists), and those are our values.

 

[F1fan]

You do not know my standard because you are not me.
I stand by what I said.

If your posts don't demonstrate what your standards are then you are not sharing the truth of what you think and believe.

If you are being truthful, then we can easily assess your stands by your thinking process.

You sound defensive about what you have revealed about your standards, are you acknowledging how poor your standard has been?

 

[F1fan]

Like I said, Estab goons are EVERYWHERE by the truckload..
As a Buddhist you and your mates stage anti-government protests against them in other countries as in this pic-

View attachment 56297

So you are expecting humans in distress all over the world to behave civilly? Let's note that some of your posts have expressed intolerance and attitudes contrary to what Jesus taught, so I'm not impressed by your judgment of anyone while you act in a similar manner.

 

[Dropship]

Immigrants (especially from the EU, which is the only place we had 'unlimited immigration' from) were a net economic benefit to the country..

Haha, how on earth can paying welfare to useless scroungers be a benefit to our country? haha..

 

[Dropship]

..Maybe you should be reading Buddha instead...

Okay try this-
"Believe nothing, no matter who said it, unless it agrees with your own common sense and your own reason" (Buddha)
Therefore my own commonsense and reason tells me that allowing mass immigration is a baaad thing because our taxes have to go to welfaring them instead of to our own people and to our own infrastructure like the NHS, education, pensioners etc.

 

[ratiocinator]

Haha, how on earth can paying welfare to useless scroungers be a benefit to our country? haha..

There's your prejudice and hatred again. Most of them are not "useless scroungers" (see, for example: The Fiscal Impact of Immigration on the UK). Even if they were, your Jesus myth tells us we should feed them if they are hungry and to invite them in if they are strangers, or face 'eternal punishment' - as I quoted from your favourite book of myths (#1083).

 

[Dropship]

..some of your posts have expressed intolerance and attitudes contrary to what Jesus taught..

I quoted Jesus so if you don't like what he said you'd better have a good lawyer when you're face to face with him at that great courtroom in the sky..
Jesus said- "Pray that you may be able to stand before me.” (Luke 21:36)

 

[F1fan]

What a theist "believes" is irrelevant to the assertion of truth that they are positing.

So a theist will assert truths they don't believe in? Why would they do that?