Atheists who turn to god, why are we doubted?

[Jainarayan]

Some people just change their mind. Find something they missed before or discovered something new that convinced them.

Booyah!!!

I agree. People have some kind of change of mind, change of heart, life-changing or thought-changing event, something speaks to them (oh yeah! God! ). I don't think there's anything wrong with it, inasmuch as the person doesn't become obnoxious about it. Converts are the worst!

 

[Akivah]

But when I tell atheists this it is left in utter disbelief because the notion of an atheist returning to religion is just not acceptable and there go the constant push to delegitimize me a former atheist which I have been for a couple of years. I understand Christians do this to atheists who are former Christians yet atheists do the exact tactic for the reverse.

That happened to me, too. I never really believed in G-d and classed myself as an atheist. When I found G-d later on, I was told by an atheist that I was never a TRUE atheist.

 

[Rival]

That happened to me, too. I never really believed in G-d and classed myself as an atheist. When I found G-d later on, I was told by an atheist that I was never a TRUE atheist.

You're alright, I get a doubly wammy: 'You were never a true Christian' and then on here a Jew who I won't name said Noachidism isn't really a thing and we should either just convert or become Christians or Muslims. I was like ...OK then, just send people back to the religions that persecute and kill you !

 

[LuisDantas]

Any point of similarity with another person can facilitate bonding.

Technically true. But there is only so much traction from "Hey, neither of us believes in a deity! Cool!"

Even that much is not shared by all atheists.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Having been an atheist for a while and turning back to religion I find it bizarre being on the other foot because even when I professed being a deist I was not being serious to myself. I just used it as a security blanket to avoid being an atheist as I was appalled by them. But when I finally admitted to being an atheist I felt free and truly believed there was no god yet I was left empty after quickly associating with atheists in person and it was not befitting for my constant depression. Believing in a god never made my depression better but having an unbiased and explorative outlook on the world did and I never found this amongst secularism as a whole.

Thinking about my life and why I became an atheist it seemed like a natural development of a security blanket after leaving 2 mentally exhausting religions being Christianity and Islam. But I never took atheism seriously and overtime I was led right back to religion with a stronger fire than ever.

But when I tell atheists this it is left in utter disbelief because the notion of an atheist returning to religion is just not acceptable and there go the constant push to delegitimize me a former atheist which I have been for a couple of years. I understand Christians do this to atheists who are former Christians yet atheists do the exact tactic for the reverse.

Is this a sign of atheism being turned into a religion or is is merely an American response do to the unreasonable father in Christianity.

It's just a sign to pick your associates more carefully.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Technically true. But there is only so much traction from "Hey, neither of us believes in a deity! Cool!"

Even that much is not shared by all atheists.

On the plus, more like to have free time for brunch on Sunday mornings. Said with my tongue firmly in my cheek.

 

[ChristineM]

This is what I have a hard time trying to understand. What is there to take seriously in atheism? Far as I can see, nothing.

It is only human to feel a need to bond with others, even to believe (although I don't think that is a proper role for religion, personally).

But atheism, well, it is just about non-demanding as it gets.



My best guess is that you have been in contact with particularly militant atheists who do not know you well.

Atheism : disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

Anything else is down to the individual. For example I take my kids seriously, my marriage, family, life, friendship, visual art, natural beauty, my environment, driving, walking, cycling, comfort, actually just about the same as many other people. The only difference between the religious and me is I'm not encumbered with religious dogma

 

[Sha'irullah]

So what is your religion now?

Pagan, it started off as a mere historical interest in the groundings of ancient philosophy. I studied it as a Muslim as my slant was strongly philosophical and I disregarded theology a lot.

You've been Muslim, Christian, Diest, and Atheist. . . . To even begin, you'd have to get very specific about the reasons behind each change. What are the timeframes and specific reasons for each change?

Born into a Christian family, turned Muslim around 14 or 15 and stayed that way for about 4 years if I recall. I became a Muslim because I was upset with Christians and their lack of scientific knowledge and I just felt alienated by the toxicity of fundamentalism and looking at the news they painted an ever increasing good picture about how Muslims were misunderstood. So it was truly something out of sympathy.

I became a deist/agnostic because I realize I should not sympathize Muslims and I found almost every interaction with them absolutely deplorable and I refocused my find on philosophy and shortly became an atheist and began interacting with them on my college campus for quite some time. I found it equally if not more disappointing than anything I felt before so I just decided to quit saturating myself with atheism and actually make an initiative on what I believe to be true. This led me to go back to a previous interest which was paganism and cultivate myself FOR myself alone.

Also, you said you had contact with an atheist community. Where? In person or online? We're these atheists you encountered friends, aquantences, workmates? I honestly don't know any atheists in real life. . . and doing a random meetup of strangers who share nothing in common with me seems pointless.

I answered that question already but yes they are mostly friends I still hang around with even to this day. I never bothered with the online atheist community as they seemed very toxic.

I'm glad you found a community somewhere. Would you care to be specific about how the interactions went? Thanks!

I actually do not associate with other pagans. I realized I cannot go around associating beliefs and groups as the same thing and I merely became a pagan because I believe and value it for my own reasons and I completely dislike the pagan community. I have no desires to be apart of them and I find them to be a basket of deplorables.

Harsh language but it is at least an honest answer.

 

[Sha'irullah]

This is what I have a hard time trying to understand. What is there to take seriously in atheism? Far as I can see, nothing.

I think you are taking this in the wrong context. Atheism can truly be summed up in the statement,"there is probably no god." But in America there is a growing culture around atheism that is truly turning it into a sociopolitical movement and it is just absolute hogwash. I am not sure about Brazil but you are truly a very honest and blunt atheist and I know of only 3 people like you.

In America atheism is growing fast and it is growing into a religion oddly enough. Atheists are trying to look out for other atheists and solidify themselves against Christians and it is just a whole bloated mess that makes no sense.

It is only human to feel a need to bond with others, even to believe (although I don't think that is a proper role for religion, personally).

But atheism, well, it is just about non-demanding as it gets.

This is exactly how I feel yet most atheists I know would be repulsed by me dating a religious girl, or even giving religion credence of any sort. It has grown into an us-vs-them mentality. I always complain about Americans being stupid yet I truly feel Americans are turning something innocent and pure like atheism into an actual movement which is absurd to me.

My best guess is that you have been in contact with particularly militant atheists who do not know you well.

That is debatable because I am 23 and I have to admit some of my core group is stupid and young and I hang around a lot of philosophy nerds and so forth which does not help.

@Sha'irullah , I wonder if the core issue might not be that you expected some form of bonding from atheists when you transitioned into one, and ended up disappointed when you found out that atheism is not a good basis for such bonding.

Atheism is not a religion. It does not provide or even facilitate such bonding, which is very much necessary and a good thing.

You might have better luck seeking other paths to provide that bonding, though.

I am not a people person and dislike being in crowds larger than 2 . . . . I can get panic attacks if I feel I am being given to much attention. I strongly dislike being apart of groups and I feel much comfortable being isolated away from people.

 

[1137]

Most (not all) atheists I talk to basically claim I can't have been a "real atheist" and converted to religion. Usually they see it this way because "once you come to a rational conclusion, you won't buy an irrational one." Obviously this assumes only atheism is rational, but that's pretty normal in the modern day, unfortunately.

 

[1137]

Saying "I used to be an atheist, too" is a relatively common tactic for proselytizers to use on atheists in order to create the impression of commonality and to suggest that there's a rational path from atheism to theism. Because it's used this way so often, saying it comes across as a red flag that the speaker is being dishonest... not because it can't ever be true, but because it's used by dishonest people so often.

Think of it like "I have a bridge to sell you" or "I'm selling some prime Florida real estate" - it must suck for people who really do have bridges or Florida property to sell.

Yet when an atheist says "I used to be religious too"...

Never mind lol.

 

[Jesster]

I don't have a problem believing you returned to religion. People become convinced of new things. It happens.

 

[osgart]

It's all imposed righteousness that all these groups who take cause with people over such matters. What human has a monopoly on righteousness? The pressure of thinking, and acting rightly, always in accordance with the cause. It's unreality to me. And I'll never take up cause with any religion, or anti religion movement.

It's liberating to move beyond factions. I can be more objective, and I'm free to become as I so choose to be. I don't like the us vs. them mentality, and the conformity demands.

I have been on both sides of this. And it disturbs my natural individual pursuit of truth. My natural religion is to not judge people for what they hold true, be it not criminal, or destructive and damaging, if it is well meaning I can accept anybody just as they are.

I tend to think, all people move through changes. The one consistency that should ever be is good intention. From individual to individual everyone is unique, and I only tend to criticize factions, and unreasonable ultimatums.

Argument is best when the motives are healthy anyway. But someone standing up on their holy mountain, declaring the one true way, and all else must be eliminated, is just plain wrong.

I find universal truthes, sure, but I don't make war and judgment with it in condemnation. I only have one general rule, Good intentions.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Yet when an atheist says "I used to be religious too"...

Never mind lol.

I look forward to the day when so few kids are brought up in a religion that an atheist saying “I used to be religious too” comes off as probably lying.

 

[blü 2]

But I never took atheism seriously

In what important sense were you an atheist, then?

overtime I was led right back to religion with a stronger fire than ever.

If that's being true to yourself, sure, why not?

atheists do the exact tactic for the reverse.

Might I suggest a little care with sweeping generalizations?

Is this a sign of atheism being turned into a religion or is is merely an American response do to the stereotyped unreasonable nature in American Protestantism.

I think reaction in the US to the aggressive and underhand tactics of Christian fundamentalists was one of the larger factors in creating the social climate that welcomed the rise of the Four Horsemen &c, but not the only one. Throughout the First World, the erosion of public authority and the collapse of new membership for organizations followed the coming of the cell phone and email and private places of conversation. At the same time, the huge damage to the authority of churches through decades of child abuse scandals, and better awareness of science and of better education generally, have all been part of it.

Is this a sign of atheism being turned into a religion or is is merely an American response do to the stereotyped unreasonable nature in American Protestantism.

Atheist societies exist, but herding cats is easier.

Humanism is fairly well organized but still has somewhat vague philosophical outlines ─ they still can't agree on a charter of tenets, for example ─ but as a meeting house for unbelievers, is an alternative (though technically you can be both a believer and a humanist).

On the negative side, there's a constant minority of atheists who have an ongoing anger against religion, nearly always the one in which they were raised or a generalization from it. They're not for atheism, they're agin religion. There's a net video which includes Stephen Fry speaking on his atheism. He's gay, and was kicking back against religious antagonism to no small extent; but since he's a smart man, I thought the lack of intellectual content in what he said was striking, though the depth of his anger was not in doubt.

 

[Sha'irullah]

In what important sense were you an atheist, then?

I truly believed there was no god as I found the evidence lacking but this did not stop me from exploring religion which I explored more so as an atheist then when I was a theist. After about a year I was looking into secular religion and started playing linguistic games with the concept of a god because I wanted to avoid the notion I felt that a god must exist. The only issue is that theologically I have always been outside of the norm so I felt I could compatibilize the concept of a higher power with that of materialism.

Essentially I was playing a philosophical gambit of turning religion into system that was atheistic and trying to make the concept of a god atheistic. I did not think this "god" existed but I felt it was somehow relevant.

If that's being true to yourself, sure, why not?

Easier said than done when you feel deeply let down by both theism and atheism.

Might I suggest a little care with sweeping generalizations?

Not trying to. I am implying a minority but quite frankly I wrote the entire post badly as I had left it open in a tab for a few days and forgot to post it. I am just gonna let it stay as is though.

I think reaction in the US to the aggressive and underhand tactics of Christian fundamentalists was one of the larger factors in creating the social climate that welcomed the rise of the Four Horsemen &c, but not the only one. Throughout the First World, the erosion of public authority and the collapse of new membership for organizations followed the coming of the cell phone and email and private places of conversation. At the same time, the huge damage to the authority of churches through decades of child abuse scandals, and better awareness of science and of better education generally, have all been part of it.

I do feel as if it is a natural response so I am not judging the rise of secularism as a whole in the US per se. I am judging though the rise of secularism following the pattern of religious fundamentalism as even I consider myself strongly secular although I have very little in common with most people who have a non religious outlook of the world.

I am just looking at traditional religion erode over time and seeing people with religious vigor handle everything from media franchises to radical secularism and flat out denialism of reality with religious observance. Who would have thought that people would have held the separation of church and state as suppression of church by state. It is bonkers to me.

Atheist societies exist, but herding cats is easier.

I have tried herding 2 cats out of a room for the last month . . . i have not succeeded once. I believe you have a point, maybe dog herding should be more fruitful.

Humanism is fairly well organized but still has somewhat vague philosophical outlines ─ they still can't agree on a charter of tenets, for example ─ but as a meeting house for unbelievers, is an alternative (though technically you can be both a believer and a humanist).

All the better for them then even though I disagree with at least 99.9999999999999% of their basic tenets and involvement in the public sphere. Vagueness makes something more malleable and adaptive to people especially those who wish to leave comforting lives. To me this is the downfall of traditional religion to begin with.

On the negative side, there's a constant minority of atheists who have an ongoing anger against religion, nearly always the one in which they were raised or a generalization from it. They're not for atheism, they're agin religion. There's a net video which includes Stephen Fry speaking on his atheism. He's gay, and was kicking back against religious antagonism to no small extent; but since he's a smart man, I thought the lack of intellectual content in what he said was striking, though the depth of his anger was not in doubt.

I had NO idea Stephen Fry was gay, geesh seems everybody likes working for the Hershey factor. I better keep an eye on my fiance, she may be a gay as well and be after what little money I have left !

 

[Twilight Hue]

If you examine the etymology of Atheism, it simply means one without gods, or no gods.

That's all it is really.

 

[columbus]

Essentially I was playing a philosophical gambit of turning religion into system that was atheistic and trying to make the concept of a god atheistic. I did not think this "god" existed but I felt it was somehow relevant.

So, you really weren't ever an atheist?

God is relevant. Just doesn't exist?

Maybe your friends are right.
And maybe you also started treating them differently than you did before you changed, and so they started treating you differently as a result.

You made a conscious decision to be different. Maybe you also made some unconscious changes as well. I see this happen a lot. People change themselves in some way, and start treating the people around them differently. Then they are unpleasantly surprised to find that their new demeanor has consequences.

It's not just the theist-nontheist thing. People who change their diet are similar. Vegans can be super annoying. Recently out of the closet gays are about as bad.

Ex-smokers are probably the worst. Especially while they are still addicted to nicotine.

But there is one thing that everyone around you has in common.
You.
Tom

 

[Sha'irullah]

So, you really weren't ever an atheist?

God is relevant. Just doesn't exist?

God is relevant the same way Star Wars is relevant to English. I can quote Star Wars a thousand ways and people will know what I mean. I thought this is something I could reshape even though I had no belief in god which is why I spent years trying to make the notion that god is just a meaningless notion which looking back at it is also hypocritical.

Maybe your friends are right.

I consider my closest friends wrong on essentially 99.99% wrong on everything important about religion, life, politics and academics.

And maybe you also started treating them differently than you did before you changed, and so they started treating you differently as a result.

They all know me as a conservative atheist who curses in Arabic and has kinky sex with a woman who passes for a 10 year old. Barely any of them think I am religious as I rarely discuss it. Most of them still think I am joking when I say I was a Muslim yet alone a Christian. I come off as very amoral and pretentious apparently

You made a conscious decision to be different. Maybe you also made some unconscious changes as well. I see this happen a lot. People change themselves in some way, and start treating the people around them differently. Then they are unpleasantly surprised to find that their new demeanor has consequences.

Considering I have random bouts with depression people know me to be random as a whole. I am not even going to dare go into detail about my random exploits. But nobody knows of me changing and the most I have changed is during my Muslim years and after that I forced myself to reshape for the better but slowly went back to acting how I was when I was a child, which is morbid, depressing, pessimistic, and skeptical toward happiness.

It's not just the theist-nontheist thing. People who change their diet are similar. Vegans can be super annoying. Recently out of the closet gays are about as bad.

I used to be a vegan for 2 years, not many people thought anything about it. More of them became concerned about me quitting veganism oddly and recommended I didn't. Although I do have experience with recently out of the closet gays though, those can be annoying even if they aren't out of the closet.

Ex-smokers are probably the worst. Especially while they are still addicted to nicotine.

But there is one thing that everyone around you has in common.
You.
Tom

That sucks, I rather be uncommon and irregular handed out like a well made Dominos pizza.

 

[1137]

I look forward to the day when so few kids are brought up in a religion that an atheist saying “I used to be religious too” comes off as probably lying.

I was just laughing at the entirely predictable, always present double standards and special pleading of modern atheism