Atheists... why the heck are you on RELIGIOUS forums?!

[Valjean]

Atheists... why the heck are you on RELIGIOUS forums?!

Religion tends to be faith-based and derived from folklore and cultural tradition, not rational analysis of observed facts.

What do the religious have to 'discuss' on a religious forum? They can declare their beliefs, or discuss doctrinal intricacies, or compare and contrast with other religious groups, but nothing is resolved. Real issues are never explored. They're fan sites.

Sites that seriously explore the foundations of theism are rare. They're usually more into philosophy than religion. They tend to be just mutual interest clubs, where everyone revels in mutual support and a common belief. They're insipid, mutual-masturbation sites that assiduously exclude anyone who might rock the boat.

What religious sites need are moderators, who can keep the discussion on track, point out irrelevancies, logical errors and poor reasoning. These would be the atheists.
Unless, of course, these not serious sites, but just feel-good, mutual support sites.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Why would logic and rationalism be dead? It's like saying algebra or geometry would die, without organized support groups.

I'm just an atheist. I think most atheists are just atheists. The only requirement; the single definitive feature, is lack of belief in God or gods.

Of course we all have other beliefs, tastes, interests, hobbies, &c, but these aren't related to our lack of belief in God.

That is not all of the everyday world. I didn't say it is dead. I said it has limits just like the human ability to walk.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Do atheists have a place on this site?

The skeptics provide a valuable service to theists willing to consider what is written to them. Where else are they going to see the ideas they see here?

I'd bet that without the skeptics' input, many if not most theists would leave the site. Without the input of the skeptics and critical thinkers, the traffic and the quality of discussion here would fall off and the site suffer. Science and philosophy would mostly disappear. References to reason and evidence would drop off.

The most active threads, which are generally one theist defending an unevidenced position by taking on a dozen skeptics, and which go for dozens of pages, wouldn't get past page two. That wouldn't happen if the theist wasn't interested in defending that position, or if the skeptics weren't there to challenge them.

 

[firedragon]

But we have no doctrines or beliefs to preach.

Then what are you preaching day in, day out??? It's doctrine and beliefs. All the time.

 

[firedragon]

The skeptics provide a valuable service to theists willing to consider what is written to them. Where else are they going to see the ideas they see here?

I'd bet that without the skeptics' input, many if not most theists would leave the site. Without the input of the skeptics and critical thinkers, the traffic and the quality of discussion here would fall off and the site suffer. Science and philosophy would mostly disappear. References to reason and evidence would drop off.

The most active threads, which are generally one theist defending an unevidenced position by taking on a dozen skeptics, and which go for dozens of pages, wouldn't get past page two. That wouldn't happen if the theist wasn't interested in defending that position, or if the skeptics weren't there to challenge them.

Most of those who claim to be skeptics are hardcore believers. Maybe its a nice word to feel good but not applied in real life.

 

[firedragon]

Rationalism is a way of thinking; a way of organizing, evaluating and drawing conclusions from facts.

Really? It's a way of thinking? Wow. Maybe you think that's brand new information. Well, since you maybe looking for a thank you, I will say thank you for your schooling.

Peace,

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Most of those who claim to be skeptics are hardcore believers. Maybe its a nice word to feel good but not applied in real life.

Well, yes. I am a hardcore believer, because that is all I have as a strong skeptic. But even that is too simple.

 

[Secret Chief]

I don’t mind atheists being here but as a former atheist myself; I wouldn’t even have found my way to a this site, let alone have partaken in it, before I found God and became of faith.

How and why atheists end up on here has always puzzled me a little.


Humbly
Hermit

I can see why the question might be asked. It may seem like wondering why fascists would join a forum called Socialist Forums. Or socialists joining the Mail Online.

 

[firedragon]

Well, yes. I am a hardcore believer, because that is all I have as a strong skeptic. But even that is too simple.

Super.

Peace.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I've answered this same question many times, on other ostensibly "religious" forums, as well as this one.

My interest is in humanity. Religion, as some might guess, has throughout history between a humungous part of human life.

Go to university and study the Humanities, what are you likely to study? Religion, literature (ancient and modern), languages (ancient and modern), philosophy, anthropology, history, archaeology, law and art (forgive me if I've left something out). In my first experience of university (I went at night, as an adult learner, since I had no opportunity on being dumped on the streets at 17 by the Children's Aid), my very first courses were Bible, Greek and Roman literature.

If you are interested in humanity, you cannot fail to be interested in religion -- whether you are or are not religious yourself.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Super.

Peace.

Well, if you leave the side of the white truth, you don't have to choose the dark side. There is also all the shades of grey.

 

[shunyadragon]

Then what are you preaching day in, day out??? It's doctrine and beliefs. All the time.

Why are theists preaching aggressively and adamentely day in and day out?!?!?!?!?!?! . . . and often condemning many other beliefs including other theists that do not believe as they do?!?!?!?!

I believe in a 'Source' that many diverse and conflicting beliefs variably call God(s). I am a Baha'i (follower of light) and describe myself as a universalist, but also believe that my faith can be brought to question as other theist beliefs therefore I am also a philosophical agnostic and admit I do not know.

Atheist and agnostics are an important part of the dialogue of understanding the diversity of beliefs. They have good very rational arguments that definitely brings to question all ancient tribal religions.

Religion is not club to beat others on the head, it is simply a word that very loosely describes the diversity of belief and non-beliefs of humanity whether organized, disorganized, including many diverse conflicting beliefs of groups and individuals

 

[shunyadragon]

Why are theists preaching aggressively and adamentely day in and day out?!?!?!?!?!?! . . . and often condemning many other beliefs including other theists that do not believe as they do?!?!?!?!

I believe in a 'Source' that many diverse and conflicting beliefs variably call God(s). I am a Baha'i (follower of light) and describe myself as a universalist, but also believe that my faith can be brought to question as other theist beliefs therefore I am also a philosophical agnostic and admit I do not know.

Atheist and agnostics are an important part of the dialogue of understanding the diversity of beliefs. They have good very rational arguments that definitely brings to question all ancient tribal religions.

Religion is not club to beat others on the head, it is simply a word that very loosely describes the diversity of belief and non-beliefs of humanity whether organized, disorganized, including many diverse conflicting beliefs of groups and individuals

To add:An important issue that most believers and non-believers avoid is the fact that we are fallible humans subject to cultural and individual self justified illogical reasoning, which by this fact alone brings most beliefs in serious question The stronger and more narrow beliefs are the more likely they are wrong. As a result fallible humans most often cling to a tribal sense of belonging and identity that is illogical and irrational.

 

[firedragon]

Well, if you leave the side of the white truth, you don't have to choose the dark side. There is also all the shades of grey.

I am not a fan of making general comments that do not mean anything. I have seen many who comment on posts wholesale. I mean comment on every post, wholesale, with nothing concrete.

I replied to your post out of respect, but this does not mean anything. It's like Joey in Friends going for an audition and the director gives some philosophical statement that does not mean any damn thing.

Thanks.

 

[Valjean]

Why do different, or even contradictory ideas always have to be in opposition? Has that adversarial mindset served humanity well in the past, do you think? Wouldn’t it be better, always, to seek out common ground?

Exactly -- but agreeing that the sky is blue or that the Earth is round does not a religious discussion make. A contradiction is a contradiction. Both opinions can't be right, and if it's important to be right, it's important to debate the differences.

 

[firedragon]

I've answered this same question many times, on other ostensibly "religious" forums, as well as this one.

My interest is in humanity. Religion, as some might guess, has throughout history between a humungous part of human life.

Go to university and study the Humanities, what are you likely to study? Religion, literature (ancient and modern), languages (ancient and modern), philosophy, anthropology, history, archaeology, law and art (forgive me if I've left something out). In my first experience of university (I went at night, as an adult learner, since I had no opportunity on being dumped on the streets at 17 by the Children's Aid), my very first courses were Bible, Greek and Roman literature.

If you are interested in humanity, you cannot fail to be interested in religion -- whether you are or are not religious yourself.

Good response. Very true.

I would also encourage you to study religion prior to criticism. After all, the study of humanities is to "study".

Cheers.

 

[Yerda]

I’ve seen a few religious people on this site complain about the general presence of atheists on RF.
I mean, it’s called RELIGIOUS forums. So they say.
Do atheists have a place on this site? I feel like the answer is obvious, but maybe it could be addressed.
The obvious answer is yes.
So, atheist, why the heck are you here? What draws you to a religious site? Are there no adequate atheist forums?
I have this thread in the debate forum, rather than the Q&A, because, if you feel like irreligious people don’t have a place on this site, I’m interested in why. I’ve seen it said on this site, so let’s hear why you think there should only be religious people on RF.

Hi.

Lots of atheists are religious. There are religious beliefs and practice that don't involve gods. Or where the gods are understood to be ideas. Lots of athiest Hindus, Buddhists, Christians, Jews etc out there.

 

[shunyadragon]

I am not a fan of making general comments that do not mean anything. I have seen many who comment on posts wholesale. I mean comment on every post, wholesale, with nothing concrete.

I replied to your post out of respect, but this does not mean anything. It's like Joey in Friends going for an audition and the director gives some philosophical statement that does not mean any damn thing.

Thanks.

Regardless of how some general comments and wholesale apparently not meaningful statements appear. The questions presented in this thread are important as to why and how people believe.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I’ve seen a few religious people on this site complain about the general presence of atheists on RF.
I mean, it’s called RELIGIOUS forums. So they say.
Do atheists have a place on this site? I feel like the answer is obvious, but maybe it could be addressed.
The obvious answer is yes.
So, atheist, why the heck are you here? What draws you to a religious site? Are there no adequate atheist forums?
I have this thread in the debate forum, rather than the Q&A, because, if you feel like irreligious people don’t have a place on this site, I’m interested in why. I’ve seen it said on this site, so let’s hear why you think there should only be religious people on RF.

IMO, when religious people ask this question, it says to me that they're probably out of touch when it comes to understanding the impact of their religion on the larger world.

When they see an atheist commenting on - or maybe even criticizing - their religion, a lot of theists respond as if their religion is mostly a matter of personal, private faith and worship: "why is this atheist trying to butt in about what *I* believe? What business is it of theirs?" To them, their religion is mostly about what happens in their own head or within the walls of their church.

OTOH, to an outsider, that person's religion is mostly about the impact of that religion on the world. That stuff might not be a big part of the individual member's experience, but they - along with every other member - support and enable it.

IMO, asking "why would someone want to talk about religion if they aren't even religious?" is a lot like asking "why would someone want to talk about ExxonMobil or Apple if they aren't even a shareholder?"

 

[RestlessSoul]

I can see why the question might be asked. It may seem like wondering why fascists would join a forum called Socialist Forums. Or socialists joining the Mail Online.

I wouldn’t join or even click on the Mail Online, because I wouldn’t want to do anything to encourage the ********. The Spectator is an interesting read though.