Atheists win! They have the fossils! What do the fossils prove?

[QuestioningMind]

A fetus in the womb doesn't mutate from one species into another.

I'm saying people should be open to the possibility that maybe 93% of the world doesn't have it all wrong...maybe there was a supernatural entity involved in the mutation...I see no evidence that there are scientific mechanisms mutating one species into another in any creature that is alive on earth today.

Do you?

Why would expect to see a process that takes hundreds of thousands to millions of years within your lifetime?

 

[Cacotopia]

Evolution doesn't happen immediately it happens over millennia. Either you can't or won't accept the fact.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Evolution doesn't happen immediately it happens over millennia. Either you can't or won't accept the fact.

Yep, and ironically enough that sort of evolution is observed through the fossil record. Didn't the title of this thread mention fossils?

 

[Jesster]

Just look at the votes on the poll of the OP....those who voted no are essentially saying that they aren't even open to the possibility that they are wrong.

I give props and admiration and respect for Dawkins for being humble and admitting that he could be wrong.

That's not why I voted no and that's not how you worded the poll.

I voted no because I'm not ready to say "maybe" about anything until I see the first portion of strong evidence for it.

I can be wrong and I will admit when it appears that I was. That doesn't mean I'm going to start supporting an idea with even a "maybe" before it's warranted, though.

 

[Spiderman]

Evolution doesn't happen immediately it happens over millennia. Either you can't or won't accept the fact.

and many of the creatures we see today have had Millennia to be showing signs of this transitional mutation into a totally different species, and when I say species, I mean signs of an amphibian turning into a reptile, or a reptile turning into a bird, a rodent, or a mammal... there's been plenty of millions of years that have gone by that we should be able to see animals in this state of mutating....

 

[SomeRandom]

and many of the creatures we see today have had Millennia to be showing signs of this transitional mutation into a totally different species, and when I say species, I mean signs of an amphibian turning into a reptile, or a reptile turning into a bird, a rodent, or a mammal... there's been plenty of millions of years that have gone by that we should be able to see animals in this state of mutating....

What you propose goes against what evolution says. Why are you asking for evolution to go against itself?

 

[Spiderman]

That's not why I voted no and that's not how you worded the poll.

I voted no because I'm not ready to say "maybe" about anything until I see the first portion of strong evidence for it.

I can be wrong and I will admit when it appears that I was. That doesn't mean I'm going to start supporting an idea with even a "maybe" before it's warranted, though.

If you're not willing to say maybe, that means you're not willing to admit that you might be wrong.

 

[Jesster]

If you're not willing to say maybe, that means you're not willing to admit that you might be wrong.

False. I can admit that I might be wrong about anything. I am not going to give an inch toward any idea until there's strong enough evidence that it might be true, though. That doesn't mean I'm saying there's absolutely no possiblity that there is a god. I'm just not going to say that there is a possibility, either.

 

[Spiderman]

What you propose goes against what evolution says. Why are you asking that evolution goes against itself?

We all evolved from a world full of single-cell organisms.

that indeed requires transitions, mutations, and transformations of one species into another as radically as I am proposing.

You know that. I think you're just playing games with me. Stop

 

[Spiderman]

False. I can admit that I might be wrong about anything. I am not going to give an inch toward any idea until there's strong enough evidence that it might be true, though. That doesn't mean I'm saying there's absolutely no possiblity that there is a god.

if you believe there's a possibility that there is a God, then you would have voted yes on the poll...it says:
Are you willing to admit that MAYBE a supernatural entity has left evidence for it's existence?

If you are not willing to admit that maybe God has given evidence to a person of his existence, when I've given some examples of it in the op, then you are essentially saying you are not open to the possibility that there is a God.

I would appreciate it if you would stop denying what is obvious.

 

[Nakosis]

Just out of curious, if that was a reflection of what you think of the OP

Whether I agree or not I admire the work you've been putting into your posts lately.

I got to the evolution poster and thought, that only wins the debate on evolution, really has nothing to do with disproof of supernatural entities.

Other than that, I just wanted to celebrate winning something.

 

[Jesster]

if you believe there's a possibility that there is a God, then you would have voted yes on the poll...it says:
Are you willing to admit that MAYBE a supernatural entity has left evidence for it's existence?

If you are not willing to admit that maybe God has given evidence to a person of his existence, when I've given some examples of it in the op, then you are essentially saying you are not open to the possibility that there is a God.

I would appreciate it if you would stop denying what is obvious.

I would appreciate it if you listened to my position without telling me what I think.

I am an agnostic atheist. The agnostic part does not mean "maybe". It means I am not taking a position of certainty. I don't have to touch "maybe" at all to get there. "Maybe" means I'm giving something the credit of possibility, and this hasn't even shown itself to be a possibility yet. I'm open to changing my mind if strong enough evidence is presented, but that hasn't been the case yet.

As for your example of a person with anecdotal experience, that's not going to cut it. Evidence that will convince me of even a "maybe" needs to be observable, repeatable, testable, and falsifiable.

 

[Spiderman]

I would appreciate it if you listened to my position without telling me what I think.

I am an agnostic atheist. The agnostic part does not mean "maybe". It means I am not taking a position of certainty. I don't have to touch "maybe" at all to get there. "Maybe" means I'm giving something the credit of possibility, and this hasn't even shown itself to be a possibility yet. I'm open to changing my mind if strong enough evidence is presented, but that hasn't been the case yet.

As for your example of a person with anecdotal experience, that's not going to cut it. Evidence that will convince me of even a "maybe" needs to be observable, repeatable, testable, and falsifiable.

may·be
ˈmābē/
adverb

1. 1.
   perhaps; possibly.
   "maybe I won't go back"
   synonyms: perhaps, possibly, conceivably, it could be (that), it is possible (that), for all one knows; More
   

noun

1. 1.
   a mere possibility or probability.

The dictionary proves me right on this one.

By refusing to vote maybe, you are not saying you're open to any possibility that God exists.

Saying, "I'm not going to say there's no possibility there is a God"
And then refusing to say maybe there is a God... makes absolutely no sense...

But whatever, have it your way.

 

[Subduction Zone]

and many of the creatures we see today have had Millennia to be showing signs of this transitional mutation into a totally different species, and when I say species, I mean signs of an amphibian turning into a reptile, or a reptile turning into a bird, a rodent, or a mammal... there's been plenty of millions of years that have gone by that we should be able to see animals in this state of mutating....

And there are plenty of fossils in the fossil record that show those changes. Why do you think that they do not exist? Perhaps you are relying on too many creationist sources.

 

[Jesster]

may·be
ˈmābē/
adverb

1. 1.
   perhaps; possibly.
   "maybe I won't go back"
   synonyms: perhaps, possibly, conceivably, it could be (that), it is possible (that), for all one knows; More

noun

1. 1.
   a mere possibility or probability.

The dictionary proves me right on this one.

By refusing to vote maybe, you are not saying you're open to any possibility that God exists.

Saying, "I'm not going to say there's no possibility there is a God"
And then refusing to say maybe there is a God... makes absolutely no sense...

But whatever, have it your way.

I know the definition of maybe. Thank you. You still aren't understanding my position on this, though. Let me give you a very basic example of where I would use "maybe".

Let's assume I've never rolled a 6-sided die before. I could assume that "maybe" it could land on 1. I can see "1" on a side of the die. I can test the die's physical measurements to see how fairly it might go toward either result. I can come up with an idea for an experiment to see if it could land on 1. That deserves a maybe. I could still roll the die a single time and have it land on 6, but there remains a possibility that it could have landed on 1.

I don't see how I can do anything remotely like that with the idea you're putting forth. Where do I even get a "maybe" for that?

 

[Spiderman]

And there are plenty of fossils in the fossil record that show those changes. Why do you think that they do not exist? Perhaps you are relying on too many creationist sources.

I see evidence at one time there were species of creatures that were different than ours today... you cannot tell everything about a creature by examining fossils and bones.

Some of that is very educated theories and guesses... they might be right, but they have no guarantee.

I'm just saying, those mutations may have happened under the influence of divine intervention a long long time ago.

The mechanisms of science are not doing that anymore.

So, I believe it was a scientific miracle that those mutations took place, meaning it defies the laws of science that we see in creatures today.

Which indicate to me that there may have very well been a supernatural influence and guidance of the mutations.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I see evidence at one time there were species of creatures that were different than ours today... you cannot tell everything about a creature by examining fossils and bones.

Some of that is very educated theories and guesses... they might be right, but they have no guarantee.

I'm just saying, those mutations may have happened under the influence of divine intervention a long long time ago.

The mechanisms of science are not doing that anymore.

So, I believe it was a scientific miracle that those mutations took place, meaning it defies the laws of science that we see in creatures today.

Which indicate to me that there may have very well been a supernatural influence and guidance of the mutations.

What makes you think that? Mutations are still happening today. You have on the order of one hundred mutations in the DNA that your parents gave to you.

You really need to either learn a bit more or support your claims with valid sources.

 

[Spiderman]

I know the definition of maybe. Thank you. You still aren't understanding my position on this, though. Let me give you a very basic example of where I would use "maybe".

Let's assume I've never rolled a 6-sided die before. I could assume that "maybe" it could land on 1. I can see "1" on a side of the die. I can test the die's physical measurements to see how fairly it might go toward either result. I can come up with an idea for an experiment to see if it could land on 1. That deserves a maybe. I could still roll the die a single time and have it land on 6, but there remains a possibility that it could have landed on 1.

I don't see how I can do anything remotely like that with the idea you're putting forth. Where do I even get a "maybe" for that?

Millions of people saw the unknown lights in the sky that the Lady of Fatima foretold.

70000 people showed up to witness the sign that our lady promised to give.

There are many eyewitness accounts, eye witness interviews on camera, and books written about it, and atheists who converted over it.

The rise of Communism in Russia took place as the children prophesied.

Two of the children died as they said they would shortly.

A Shrine was erected there, a huge movement that affects over a billion people, where millions of people make pilgrimages to each year.

World War 2 took place as foretold.

There's a Medical Bureau at Lourdes where doctors testify that complete miraculous and instantaneous healings took place with no scientific medical explanation.

Scientist have examined the tilma at Guadalupe which led to the conversion of the Aztecs, and much of South America, and they said there's no scientific explanation why the cactus fibers have not decayed after this many centuries, and there is no scientific explanation for how the image got on the fibers, as there is no indication that it is a painting...

All of that was presented to you in the Op, and you're not even willing to say maybe these people are not all full of s***!

Really??

Looks like you figured out you're extremely smart to. Cheers!

 

[Subduction Zone]

Millions of people saw the unknown lights in the sky that the Lady of Fatima foretold.

70000 people showed up to witness the sign that our lady promised to give.

There are many eyewitness accounts, eye witness interviews on camera, and books written about it, and atheists who converted over it.

The rise of Communism in Russia took place as the children prophesied.

Two of the children died as they said they would shortly.

A Shrine was erected there, a huge movement that affects over a billion people, where millions of people make pilgrimages to each year.

World War 2 took place as foretold.

There's a Medical Bureau at Lourdes where doctors testify that complete miraculous and instantaneous healings took place with no scientific medical explanation.

Scientist have examined the tilma at Guadalupe which led to the conversion of the Aztecs, and much of South America, and they said there's no scientific explanation why the cactus fibers have not decayed after this many centuries, and there is no scientific explanation for how the image got on the fibers, as there is no indication that it is a painting...

All of that was presented to you in the Op, and you're not even willing to say maybe these people are not all full of s***!

Really??

Looks like you figured out you're extremely smart to. Cheers!

And yet you can't find a valid resource that backs this claim.

In actuality it was far less than 70,000. Many saw nothing at all.

Can you find a valid resource for any of these claims that support you?

 

[Spiderman]

What makes you think that? Mutations are still happening today. You have on the order of one hundred mutations in the DNA that your parents gave to you.

You really need to either learn a bit more or support your claims with valid sources.

I specified what mutations I was talking about and you know it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I specified what mutations I was talking about and you know it.

No, you didn't since you have no clue as to what mutations were involved.