Australia: Coalition MP says women in child care 'not the same' as men in construction during gender pay debate

[danieldemol]

Colin Boyce says you can't compare women working in childcare with men working in construction.

He says;
'"Many women don't want to be CEOs of companies or take leadership roles.

"You cannot possibly compare women who are working in the childcare sector, as an example, to men who work in the construction industry.
"It's simply not the same thing."

In response, Labor MP Carina Garland told the chamber her ancestors who campaigned for women's suffrage in the 19th century would be "appalled and dismayed" at Mr Boyce's comments.'

Source: 'Many women don't want to be CEOs': Coalition MP criticised over gender pay gap comments

I personally don't know much about childcare or construction, so can't really say how they compare, but I have known my fair share of lady leaders, so I believe Mr Boyce's comments telling women what they aspire to be where a bit much to say the least.

Thoughts?

 

[GoodAttention]

Colin Boyce says you can't compare women working in childcare with men working in construction.

He says;
'"Many women don't want to be CEOs of companies or take leadership roles.

"You cannot possibly compare women who are working in the childcare sector, as an example, to men who work in the construction industry.
"It's simply not the same thing."

In response, Labor MP Carina Garland told the chamber her ancestors who campaigned for women's suffrage in the 19th century would be "appalled and dismayed" at Mr Boyce's comments.'

Source: 'Many women don't want to be CEOs': Coalition MP criticised over gender pay gap comments

I personally don't know much about childcare or construction, so can't really say how they compare, but I have known my fair share of lady leaders, so I believe Mr Boyce's comments telling women what they aspire to be where a bit much to say the least.

Thoughts?

Where does he "tell" women anything?

If there are less women CEOs than men, it is because less women want to become CEOs. I think that is a reasonable statement, as he suggests if more women did then there would be.

Not meaning to be rude here but is English your first language?

 

[Heyo]

If there are less women CEOs than men, it is because less women want to become CEOs.

Do you have a source for that?

I think that is a reasonable statement, as he suggests if more women did then there would be.

No, it isn't reasonable without some evidence for the assertion.
Unlike construction work, there is no reason why women wouldn't want to lead corporations. Inherent misogynism is just as valid an assumption.

Not meaning to be rude here but is English your first language?

Not meaning to be rude, but is critical thinking something foreign to you?

 

[PureX]

Colin Boyce says you can't compare women working in childcare with men working in construction.

He says;
'"Many women don't want to be CEOs of companies or take leadership roles.

"You cannot possibly compare women who are working in the childcare sector, as an example, to men who work in the construction industry.
"It's simply not the same thing."

In response, Labor MP Carina Garland told the chamber her ancestors who campaigned for women's suffrage in the 19th century would be "appalled and dismayed" at Mr Boyce's comments.'

Source: 'Many women don't want to be CEOs': Coalition MP criticised over gender pay gap comments

I personally don't know much about childcare or construction, so can't really say how they compare, but I have known my fair share of lady leaders, so I believe Mr Boyce's comments telling women what they aspire to be where a bit much to say the least.

Thoughts?

What is the point of this observation?

 

[HonestJoe]

Thoughts?

What about men working in childcare and women working in construction?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Colin Boyce says you can't compare women working in childcare with men working in construction.

That's right. There are lots of construction trades where you can go a whole career without ever having to touch someone else's poop.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Colin Boyce says you can't compare women working in childcare with men working in construction.

That's right. There are lots of construction trades where you can go a whole career without ever having to touch someone else's poop.

What about men working in childcare and women working in construction?

They definitely exist. They have to deal with many of the same issues. Wages in fields traditionally considered as "women's work" tend to be lower for the same work, and this affects the men working in these fields as well.

 

[Viker]

Many women don't want to be CEOs of companies or take leadership roles

Most men in construction just want jobs. They're not interested in being CEOs or leadership roles either.

However, women in childcare are providing a vital resource as is are men in the construction industry. This pitting women against men is infuriating and distracting.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If there are less women CEOs than men, it is because less women want to become CEOs. I think that is a reasonable statement, as he suggests if more women did then there would be.

The pool of future CEOs is generally corporate senior management. Do you mean that women in senior management don't want to become CEOs? Or are there just not that many women in senior management?

 

[Revoltingest]

Colin Boyce says you can't compare women working in childcare with men working in construction.

He says;
'"Many women don't want to be CEOs of companies or take leadership roles.

"You cannot possibly compare women who are working in the childcare sector, as an example, to men who work in the construction industry.
"It's simply not the same thing."

In response, Labor MP Carina Garland told the chamber her ancestors who campaigned for women's suffrage in the 19th century would be "appalled and dismayed" at Mr Boyce's comments.'

Source: 'Many women don't want to be CEOs': Coalition MP criticised over gender pay gap comments

I personally don't know much about childcare or construction, so can't really say how they compare, but I have known my fair share of lady leaders, so I believe Mr Boyce's comments telling women what they aspire to be where a bit much to say the least.

Thoughts?

Construction (in USA) ranks among the most dangerous jobs.
Child care doesn't.

Entry level jobs in child care & construction have minimal
skill requirements. But construction skilled trades require
much training & experience. Child care appears less so
(speaking as one who has used both child care & trades.)

 

[VoidCat]

The idea women don't want to be ceos...imma put that aside.

I work in childcare. I've talked to a veteran friend if mine they got no clue how I do it. He would rather go to war and work in the military again despite the fact it gave him ptsd then deal with a classroom of 20 toddlers. And he hated the military... You know how rough it is working in childcare? It's hardwork. Most people can't do it. People think it's easy cuz it's "women's work" but ask most people if they could deal. They'd say no.

 

[Revoltingest]

The idea women don't want to be ceos...imma put that aside.

I work in childcare. I've talked to a veteran friend if mine they got no clue how I do it. He would rather go to war and work in the military again despite the fact it gave him ptsd then deal with a classroom of 20 toddlers. And he hated the military... You know how rough it is working in childcare? It's hardwork. Most people can't do it. People think it's easy cuz it's "women's work" but ask most people if they could deal. They'd say no.

Some tend towards working with people,
& others tend towards working with things.
To work in a field that one is unsuited to would
be more difficult. So that's not a good measure
of difficulty of the field.
BTW, I wouldn't want to care for children. But
I'll wager that child care workers would be miserable
doing jobs I've held...if they could even get the
necessary education.
All jobs are worthy of respect, & are of value.
Pay rates will (& should) vary though.

 

[HonestJoe]

All jobs are worthy of respect, & are of value.
Pay rates will (& should) vary though.

Obviously specific pay rates will vary, the question is on what basis. The fact is that some jobs are still often viewed as of less respect and certainly of less value only because they're viewed as traditionally "female" jobs, and this politician appears to be expressing and supporting that point of view (albeit, I suspect, not entirely consciously). That is why he is being called out, as part of the ongoing efforts to ensure that the respect and value of different jobs are properly reflected on the basis of those jobs and not the kind of people who commonly do them (or are perceived to do so).

 

[Revoltingest]

Obviously specific pay rates will vary, the question is on what basis.

I prefer that a free market determine it.
Sure, I don't find movies stars worth tens of
millions of dollars per year. But employers
are willing because it's a valuable exchange.

The fact is that some jobs are still often viewed as of less respect and certainly of less value only because they're viewed as traditionally "female" jobs, and this politician appears to be expressing and supporting that point of view (albeit, I suspect, not entirely consciously). That is why he is being called out, as part of the ongoing efforts to ensure that the respect and value of different jobs are properly reflected on the basis of those jobs and not the kind of people who commonly do them (or are perceived to do so).

OK.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Obviously specific pay rates will vary, the question is on what basis. The fact is that some jobs are still often viewed as of less respect and certainly of less value only because they're viewed as traditionally "female" jobs, and this politician appears to be expressing and supporting that point of view (albeit, I suspect, not entirely consciously).

There are lots of job evaluation processes that will assign points based on the characteristics of the job (how much of your day do you spend on your feet? How much do you have to lift heavy loads? Could people die if you make a mistake? etc., etc.) and then all the various jobs are assigned into pay bands based on total score.

That's the typical way to justify the pay scales for dissimilar jobs.

 

[HonestJoe]

I prefer that a free market determine it.

So when you said all jobs are worthy or respect and of value, you didn't mean it? Only jobs the free market determines are of value actually are?

Or could it be that you, like pretty much everyone else here, support a regulated free market and the actual issue is the complex matter of determining how that regulation needs to operate?

 

[Revoltingest]

So when you said all jobs are worthy or respect and of value, you didn't mean it?

What a strange inference.

Only jobs the free market determines are of value actually are?

I addressed pay rates.
Try to follow the discussion.

Or could it be that you, like pretty much everyone else here, support a regulated free market and the actual issue is the complex matter of determining how that regulation needs to operate?

You must not read much on RF.
I've often advocated for useful regulation.

Someone here recently told me that 3% (as I recall)
of all posts on RF are mine. How could ya miss'm.

 

[Alien826]

Construction (in USA) ranks among the most dangerous jobs.
Child care doesn't.

Entry level jobs in child care & construction have minimal
skill requirements. But construction skilled trades require
much training & experience. Child care appears less so
(speaking as one who has used both child care & trades.)

They did try to transfer some construction workers into childcare.

It was when they started using fork-lift trucks to move the children around that people began to realize that they might not be ideally suited to it.

 

[Alien826]

I addressed pay rates.
Try to follow the discussion.

You are correct that in our society the market determines the price of everything, including labor. Example ... someone spends 10 years getting a Phd in stamp collecting. He feels that all his effort should gain him a top line salary. In reality I can't get a job at all in that profession because there's no demand for it.

Nevertheless we do have perceived imbalance in work/rewards. In this case, either the skill of childcare is not high (I disagree), or there are too many job seekers compared to jobs .... or what? Maybe we are not expecting high enough standards because we value buildings higher than our children? Maybe the workers just put up with it too much? The construction guys stopped doing that a long time ago and formed unions.