• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Authoritarian Based Religions and American Style Fascism

dfnj

Well-Known Member
I've read a number of articles on American style fascism. I think there is two sides to this study. Most of the articles on American style fascism concentrate their focus on the power-holders. I think just as important is there should be an equal focus on the American people. Hitler would never have risen to power if it were not for the mentality of the 1933 German people.

"Authoritarian personality is a state of mind or attitude characterized by belief in absolute obedience or submission to someone else's authority, as well as the administration of that belief through the oppression of one's subordinates."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarian_personality

"Bob Altemeyer conducted a series of studies on what he labeled right-wing authoritarianism (RWA), and presents the most recent analysis of this personality type.[11] The focus of RWA research is political preferences as measured through surveys, that suggest three tendencies as noted in attitudinal clusters. These are: 1) submission to legitimate authorities; 2) aggression towards sanctioned targeted minority groups; and 3) adherence to values and beliefs perceived as endorsed by followed leadership."

I think number 1 listed above is very interesting. I tend to be a far leftist socialist in my political views. So over the years I have had a number of conversations with right wingers. And I notice something about right wingers in that unless the source of your information comes from a "legitimate authority" it is automatically invalid. The content of what is being said is NOT as important as who is saying it. This is so different from my own point of view which is the opposite. In my leftist socialist mindset public policy and political positions are MORE important than who is talking.

I think the mentality of someone who has an authoritarian personality is amplified by the Christian religion. The King James version of the bible seems to me to be like government propaganda for a particular type of government. The function of authoritarian based religion is to establish legitimacy of monarchy. If the monarch is revered as God on Earth then people will not question the monarchs decisions to build an empire. You cannot have a lord without slaves. The Christian religion requires submission to authority as the only path to salvation. Christianity is not an egalitarian religion when it comes to leadership and who is in authority.

For the emperor to be successful building an empire requires invading nearby lands and killing lots of people. The problem is most people understand the power of the golden rule when it comes to killing someone. So the way emperors get around this is by having a religion that discriminates against other groups of people with labels. Once a group of people are "labeled" they are considered to be sub-human animals and there is no moral consequence to murdering sub-humans. Then what emperors do is they create one or two false flag attacks and the "chosen" people are frothing at the mouth for revenge. This is the classic formula for building empire that has been used for thousands of years.

So combine the mentality of the American people with their authoritarian based religion and keep it in mind when reading these articles on American style fascism. In these articles the focus is on the power-holders of government:

"The Resurgence of Political Authoritarianism": https://truthout.org/articles/resurgence-of-political-authoritarianism-interview-with-noam-chomsky/

"Putting aside these secondary matters, the major attack on the institutions and values of liberal democracy is by the powerful business classes, intensifying since Reagan as both political parties have drifted toward greater subordination to their interests — the Republicans to such an extreme that by now they barely can be considered a political party. Anyone who finds this surprising must be uninformed about American society and how it functions. By now, as business power has been unleashed by its servants in the Republican Party, the traditional business attack on “the institutions and values of liberal democracy” has reached levels not seen since the Gilded Age, if even then.

Of course, it is quite legal to buy elections, to send lobbyists to congressional offices to write legislation, and in other ways “to shape public policy in a way that serves [private power’s] narrow interests” — indeed, these comprise “an essential, nonaccidental part of … business strategy”

"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power." Benito Mussolini

"Reading Against Fascism": https://truthout.org/articles/reading-against-fascism/

"Fantasies of absolute control, racial cleansing, unchecked militarism and class warfare are at the heart of a US social order that has turned lethal. This is a dystopian social order marked by hollow words, an imagination pillaged of any substantive meaning, cleansed of compassion and used to legitimate the notion that alternative worlds are impossible to entertain. What we are witnessing is an abandonment of democratic institutions and values and a full-scale attack on dissent, thoughtful reasoning and the radical imagination."

From an article titled "Fascism Anyone?": http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/27/076.html
  1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
    Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

  2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
    Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

  3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
    The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

  4. Supremacy of the Military
    Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

  5. Rampant Sexism
    The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

  6. Controlled Mass Media
    Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

  7. Obsession with National Security
    Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

  8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
    Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

  9. Corporate Power is Protected
    The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

  10. Labor Power is Suppressed
    Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed .

  11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
    Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.

  12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
    Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

  13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
    Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

  14. Fraudulent Elections
    Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html
 

Ellen Brown

Well-Known Member
I've read a number of articles on American style fascism. I think there is two sides to this study. Most of the articles on American style fascism concentrate their focus on the power-holders. I think just as important is there should be an equal focus on the American people. Hitler would never have risen to power if it were not for the mentality of the 1933 German people.

"Authoritarian personality is a state of mind or attitude characterized by belief in absolute obedience or submission to someone else's authority, as well as the administration of that belief through the oppression of one's subordinates."

Authoritarian personality - Wikipedia

"Bob Altemeyer conducted a series of studies on what he labeled right-wing authoritarianism (RWA), and presents the most recent analysis of this personality type.[11] The focus of RWA research is political preferences as measured through surveys, that suggest three tendencies as noted in attitudinal clusters. These are: 1) submission to legitimate authorities; 2) aggression towards sanctioned targeted minority groups; and 3) adherence to values and beliefs perceived as endorsed by followed leadership."

I think number 1 listed above is very interesting. I tend to be a far leftist socialist in my political views. So over the years I have had a number of conversations with right wingers. And I notice something about right wingers in that unless the source of your information comes from a "legitimate authority" it is automatically invalid. The content of what is being said is NOT as important as who is saying it. This is so different from my own point of view which is the opposite. In my leftist socialist mindset public policy and political positions are MORE important than who is talking.

I think the mentality of someone who has an authoritarian personality is amplified by the Christian religion. The King James version of the bible seems to me to be like government propaganda for a particular type of government. The function of authoritarian based religion is to establish legitimacy of monarchy. If the monarch is revered as God on Earth then people will not question the monarchs decisions to build an empire. You cannot have a lord without slaves. The Christian religion requires submission to authority as the only path to salvation. Christianity is not an egalitarian religion when it comes to leadership and who is in authority.

For the emperor to be successful building an empire requires invading nearby lands and killing lots of people. The problem is most people understand the power of the golden rule when it comes to killing someone. So the way emperors get around this is by having a religion that discriminates against other groups of people with labels. Once a group of people are "labeled" they are considered to be sub-human animals and there is no moral consequence to murdering sub-humans. Then what emperors do is they create one or two false flag attacks and the "chosen" people are frothing at the mouth for revenge. This is the classic formula for building empire that has been used for thousands of years.

So combine the mentality of the American people with their authoritarian based religion and keep it in mind when reading these articles on American style fascism. In these articles the focus is on the power-holders of government:

"The Resurgence of Political Authoritarianism": https://truthout.org/articles/resurgence-of-political-authoritarianism-interview-with-noam-chomsky/

"Putting aside these secondary matters, the major attack on the institutions and values of liberal democracy is by the powerful business classes, intensifying since Reagan as both political parties have drifted toward greater subordination to their interests — the Republicans to such an extreme that by now they barely can be considered a political party. Anyone who finds this surprising must be uninformed about American society and how it functions. By now, as business power has been unleashed by its servants in the Republican Party, the traditional business attack on “the institutions and values of liberal democracy” has reached levels not seen since the Gilded Age, if even then.

Of course, it is quite legal to buy elections, to send lobbyists to congressional offices to write legislation, and in other ways “to shape public policy in a way that serves [private power’s] narrow interests” — indeed, these comprise “an essential, nonaccidental part of … business strategy”

"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power." Benito Mussolini

"Reading Against Fascism": https://truthout.org/articles/reading-against-fascism/

"Fantasies of absolute control, racial cleansing, unchecked militarism and class warfare are at the heart of a US social order that has turned lethal. This is a dystopian social order marked by hollow words, an imagination pillaged of any substantive meaning, cleansed of compassion and used to legitimate the notion that alternative worlds are impossible to entertain. What we are witnessing is an abandonment of democratic institutions and values and a full-scale attack on dissent, thoughtful reasoning and the radical imagination."

From an article titled "Fascism Anyone?": Laurence W. Britt, Facism Anyone?
  1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
    Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

  2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
    Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

  3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
    The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

  4. Supremacy of the Military
    Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

  5. Rampant Sexism
    The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

  6. Controlled Mass Media
    Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

  7. Obsession with National Security
    Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

  8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
    Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

  9. Corporate Power is Protected
    The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

  10. Labor Power is Suppressed
    Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed .

  11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
    Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.

  12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
    Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

  13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
    Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

  14. Fraudulent Elections
    Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
The 14 Characteristics of Fascism, by Lawrence Britt, Spring 2003


Just off the top of my head, Mormonism has a very well defined power structure, and the members are admonished to place themselves in obedience to it. Catholics also have that sort of power structure, and several others try to do it but most of the time members won't put up with it and blow them off. In Islam, a woman is marked by her garb, and the Quran is used against them, pushing the idea that we are about the status of cows. I don't know much about any Jewish power structure, and have given up because of their stone walling outsiders.

Did you have other beliefs in mind?
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I've read a number of articles on American style fascism. I think there is two sides to this study. Most of the articles on American style fascism concentrate their focus on the power-holders. I think just as important is there should be an equal focus on the American people. Hitler would never have risen to power if it were not for the mentality of the 1933 German people.

Good summary, although I had some thoughts on this topic.

One significant difference between the U.S. and the countries of Europe is that, in the U.S., following or taking an oath to a person is something very alien to us. Our culture is nowhere near as disciplined or orderly. Our fascism (if such a thing exists in America) is more like that of a band of ruffian cowboys or outlaw gang. Usually, the one who is the toughest or the fastest gunfighter will be in charge for a while, but that's always in a state of flux, since there are other ambitious types who are treacherous enough to want to go after the top spot.

When we're at our worst, we're more like a disorganized pirate crew at each other's throats. (I've read that it's somewhat like that within the actual fascist groups today. There's a lot of infighting, splinterism within their movement - all because everyone wants to be the next Hitler.)

The religion may be an organizing influence, but again, apart from outright religious cults, they don't seem to operate according to any rigid, leader-driven hierarchy - at least not anyone to rule over every sect within the Christian religion.

Indeed, our whole society and political culture were established by the principle that there is no such thing as "royal blood" or "divine right to rule." Our checks and balances were put in place precisely so that a single person can never gain absolute power. Americans generally don't want leaders and they resent anyone who tries to tell them what to do. We were founded in the idea of thumbing our nose at authority, especially any kind of monarchist authority.

In Europe, where many countries have been ruled by kings and queens, they seem far more respectful of tradition and hierarchy than we have tended to be in America. In Germany up until the end of WW1, they were ruled by a monarchist government led by a Kaiser. I don't think he held absolute power (not like the Tsar in Russia), but at least in the eyes of the people, the idea of one monarch leading the entire country was acceptable to the people.

While Hitler was certainly not of noble blood (and couldn't even get promoted higher than corporal in the army), the basic mentality of one-man rule still existed. Likewise, the idea of the military taking an oath to Adolf Hitler himself (as opposed to an oath to the constitution or the country as a whole) also seemed normal within that political culture. They called it "Führerprinzip" (not to be confused with "Fahrvergnügen").

Other significant differences which should be noted was that Germany was still angry over losing the last war and having the terms of the Treaty of Versailles imposed upon them - something that America isn't having to deal with. Plus, they were geographically surrounded by countries that hated them, as well as existing dangerously close to the USSR. (People in America were afraid of the USSR even as far away as we are, but they were right next door to Germany, so they were probably even more afraid.) In addition, Germany had a very large Communist Party which also threatened to take power, and this was also a factor in scaring many industrialists and moderates into supporting Hitler. I don't see anything comparable like that happening in America at present.

I don't think America will ever "become" fascist. However, there may be enough of that mindset to shake things up to the point where other factions on the political spectrum may have to make some hard and serious choices. This is where the mettle of the liberals and progressives will be tested.

Ultimately, their only real choice will be to move further left. But there's still a question of whether they have the strength or the courage to give up their bourgeois love of luxury and comfort. They may want to stop fascism. They may want to get rid of Trump. But whether they're capable or willing to make any sacrifices or compromises in doing so, that's what is at issue.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
The religion may be an organizing influence, but again, apart from outright religious cults, they don't seem to operate according to any rigid, leader-driven hierarchy - at least not anyone to rule over every sect within the Christian religion.
.

If I understood correctly, the right-wing in the US is considered the stronghold of Christians...especially Evangelicals.
In my country it is the opposite. The leftists go hand in hand with the Catholic Church, while right-wing Nationalists are more secular.
In fact we nickname leftists "Catto-Comunisti" (Catholics-Communists):D
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
If I understood correctly, the right-wing in the US is considered the stronghold of Christians...especially Evangelicals.

True to some extent, although there are many Christians on the left. It largely depends on the issue.
 

Ellen Brown

Well-Known Member
If I understood correctly, the right-wing in the US is considered the stronghold of Christians...especially Evangelicals.
In my country it is the opposite. The leftists go hand in hand with the Catholic Church, while right-wing Nationalists are more secular.
In fact we nickname leftists "Catto-Comunisti" (Catholics-Communists):D


America is sharply divided between the right and left, and both try to ignore those in the middle majority, and it is often almost too late before the middle acts.
 
Top