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Authorship of Torah

Rival

Rival

Diex Aie
Staff member
Premium Member
This one's super easy, probably been squabbled over before, and not even aimed at Muslims (so you guys can relax, for once)

Who wrote Torah? I refer to the five books specifically.

There are many hypotheses: Moses / Documentary Hypothesis / A stoner etc

:)
 
buddhist

buddhist

Well-Known Member
Rival said:
Good thing that's not how historical analysis works..?
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Historical evidence is not proof.

At best, a majority of historians might analyze and interpret the evidence and then lean towards a conclusion, but this does not prove history. After all, there will always be dissenting historians who conclude differently after interpreting the same evidence.
 
Rival

Rival

Diex Aie
Staff member
Premium Member
buddhist said:
Historical evidence is not proof.

At best, historical evidence and analysis might lean towards a conclusion, but it cannot prove history. After all, there will always be dissenting historians who conclude differently after interpreting the same evidence.
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I'm not asking for absolute proof though. If there were absolute proof, this wouldn't be a debate. It would be a non-issue. I'm asking, 'How do you/your faith/ interpret the authorship of Torah?' Was it Moses? Priests? Who?
 
Rival

Rival

Diex Aie
Staff member
Premium Member
The idea is, one person says 'Moses' another says 'Documentary Hypothesis', back up joins in, a debate begins, we fling mud at each other, go 16 pages in, change the topic, and come no closer to a conclusion; we then tire of it and start a new debate on something totally unrelated. This is how RF debates work. We don't do it for a conclusion; we do it because we crave the thrill of the fight.
 
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buddhist

buddhist

Well-Known Member
Rival said:
I'm not asking for absolute proof though. If there were absolute proof, this wouldn't be a debate. It would be a non-issue. I'm asking, 'How do you/your faith/ interpret the authorship of Torah?' Was it Moses? Priests? Who?
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I see it likely as a collaborative effort as a way by those at the top (priests, etc.) to maintain control over the common people. Tithes given to them of free land, free food, free money, and protection by the common people. Commanded by "god", of course.
 
Brickjectivity

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Rival said:
The idea is, one person says 'Moses' another says 'Documentary Hypothesis', back up joins in, a debate begins, we fling mud at each other, go 16 pages in, change the topic, and come no closer to a conclusion; we then tire of it and start a new debate on something totally unrelated. This is how RF debates work. We don't do it for a conclusion; we do it because we like the thrill of the fight.
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Perhaps it was pirates who encountered an alien intelligence? I see this idea put forward in space movies such as Stargate or 2001: A Space Odyssey. Perhaps it was written by pirates after they encountered an alien intelligence. The alien gave them a civilization, and then they, amazed and happy, worked their fingers off trying to codify and study everything they could find about aliens. Thus they incorporated various Babylonian texts which seemed remotely related to alien visitations into the Bible. Pyramid power, etc. Explains everything, doesn't it?
 
Laika

Laika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Rival said:
The idea is, one person says 'Moses' another says 'Documentary Hypothesis', back up joins in, a debate begins, we fling mud at each other, go 16 pages in, change the topic, and come no closer to a conclusion; we then tire of it and start a new debate on something totally unrelated. This is how RF debates work. We don't do it for a conclusion; we do it because we crave the thrill of the fight.
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Or maybe we will all agree and a miracle will happen?

giphy.gif
 
rosends

rosends

Well-Known Member
As a statement of faith, I say that God wrote it, and told it to Moses to transcribe but some of the fifth book was authored by Moses. The talmud discusses options for the final 8 verses:
1. Joshua
2. Moses through prophecy

note -- my position cannot be proven, but it also can't be disproven. I'm OK with that.
 
W

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
Moses probably took some old sources PLUS spoke to God face to face PLUS in some narrow cases verses added after Moses died, particularly about Moses death

In a sense God superintended the process and it was 'God breathed'

Moses also is the author of Psalm 90 (and maybe more after than where he authored the first of some set of Psalms). Psalm 90 is the head of book 4 of the Psalms which poetically relates to the book of Numbers in the Torah.

 
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W

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
To be honest, I don't find the documentary hypothesis credible. There is too much structure in the books of Torah to carve out pieces of books like that The books tie together. There is a high amount of (often chiastic) structure suggesting deliberate organization by one main person.

 
V

von bek

Well-Known Member
I lean towards the Documentary Hypothesis. It does a great job of explaining why we find the narrative(s) we do and why there seem to be variations already built into the text. But, I certainly do not rule out a single author as being impossible.
 
Kelly of the Phoenix

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
whirlingmerc said:
To be honest, I don't find the documentary hypothesis credible. There is too much structure in the books of Torah to carve out pieces of books like that The books tie together. There is a high amount of (often chiastic) structure suggesting deliberate organization by one main person.

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It's amazing how cleaned up a bunch of texts can be when edited. Isn't Ezra supposed to be one of the editors?
 
W

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
Well Kelly.... I don't believe any conservative scholar would say Ezra was an editor of the Torah
and old manuscrupts like the Samaritan Pentateauch predating that would call Ezra as editor into question.... in my opinion...
 
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