Ayran is synonymous with Sanskrit, and what all happened to the people who speak the Tamil language

[GoodAttention]

Your first statement is true. I would not be so harsh on Ajay Pratap Singh.
Most probably, he is a young person studying history and perhaps some day he will rise above caste prejudices and be a true historian.

Tamil has been given all due respect. It is a state language and also is classified along with Sanskrit as a classical language.
But Tamils need to understand that only Hindi can be the common language of India without disrespect to other languages (and not be carried away by misleading political or religious stances).

Hindi (43.63%)
Bengali (8.30%)
Marathi (6.83%)
Telugu (6.70%)
Tamil (5.70%)
Gujarati (4.58%)

Languages of India - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Further questions for you @Aupmanyav

In today's world, does India need a common language?
Shouldn't that language be English?

It is not the problem of Tamil Nadu, Karnataka, Kerala, Andra Pradesh etc. that they are better educated that their northern "relatives". Enforcing Hindi to be learnt by the children of these states should be a choice, not a requirement. Those that speak the Dravidian languages have put up with Sankritization and Brahmin influence for millenia, and it is my determination that there be no further imposition.

The only way for those in Delhi, Chandigarh, Patna, Ranchi, and so one to be brought down a peg or two is to establish the true historical value of Tamil and "Proto-Dravidian". For this, we need to allow exploration, and unfortunately, without a change in government in India, the voice for Dravidian consideration will be continuously be swept to the side to make way for Indo-European fiction, or worse, the truth labelled as a "low-caste" fallacy.

We don't even need to look past this forum to see the evidence of that.

 

[GoodAttention]

@River Sea

You asked this in another thread, I am bringing into this thread.

How has Hebrew scriptures give reason about birthed and bathed in shallower oceans, who was prefect ruler during this time?

How has Ancient Egypt area of land changed from 20,000 years ago? What was flooding 20,000 years ago compared to flooding during Noah and Vaivaswat Manu, 3000 BCE? What were the similarities and differences in these flooding?


I am giving the Tamil correlation to the name Noah.

நுகம்​

nukam n. yuga. 1. [K. noga,M. nukam.] Yoke; காளையின்கழுத்தில் பூட்டப்படும்மரம். எருதே யிளைய நுகமுண ராவே (புறநா. 102).2. See நுகத்தாணி (அரு. நி ) 3. Burden,weight; பாரம் வையம் . . . காக்கும் படுநுகம் பூண்பல் (சீவக. 203). 4. Power, strength; வலிமை தெவ்வர் தேஎ நுகம்படக் கடந்து (மலைபடு. 87). 5.


There are two interesting descriptions that the dictionary gives, the first is yuga which is the Sanskrit equivalent meaning a period of time. The second is yoke, which (almost) always describes an instrument which connects two animals for the purpose of ploughing.

It is my belief that when we read the story in Genesis there are 2 Noahs, one "real-time" and the other more ancient, going back to when sea levels were at their lowest. When we read "flooding", this is not how we would experience such a climatic event in days or weeks, but over thousands and thousands of years as ice on mountain tops melt and the sea rises.

The word I have translated ends in an "im", but if we are to use it as a name for a person then I can see the sense in dropping the last letter, leaving Nuka. As the k sound becomes a h sound, this is then Nuha or Nua.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Shouldn't that language be English?

It is not the problem of Tamil Nadu, Karnataka, Kerala, Andra Pradesh etc. that they are better educated that their northern "relatives". Enforcing Hindi to be learnt by the children of these states should be a choice, not a requirement. Those that speak the Dravidian languages have put up with Sankritization and Brahmin influence for millenia, and it is my determination that there be no further imposition.

The only way for those in Delhi, Chandigarh, Patna, Ranchi, and so one to be brought down a peg or two is to establish the true historical value of Tamil and "Proto-Dravidian". For this, we need to allow exploration, and unfortunately, without a change in government in India, the voice for Dravidian consideration will be continuously be swept to the side to make way for Indo-European fiction, or worse, the truth labelled as a "low-caste" fallacy.

We don't even need to look past this forum to see the evidence of that.

If it is English, then it leaves out the majority of Indians all over India including Tamilnadu.

You are talking only of cities. North India city people too know English well. But majority of Indians live in villages.
Nobody has been stopped for using the local language in any state, and English when necessary. UPSC and other organizations accept answers in nearly all languages of India. I have read about a person who cleared the IAS examination with Arabic as the language.
People can use Hindi as the link language. No pass for fail for Hindi. Tamil has been using Sanskrit words for a long time.

What do you mean by Brahmanism and how does knowing or learning Hindi brings in Brahmanism? Does knowing or learning English brings in Christianity? Having used English all my life, has it made me a Christian? (Of course, I do not claim that I have the final solution for this problem)
That is not true. I love Tamil as my 'Chiththi'. Really. For me, all languages of India are sacrosanct, including the beautiful Urdu language. I am coming back from a family gathering just now after meeting with my Madurai-origin sister-in-law and her Kashmiri-Tamil daughter. A beautiful lotus-eyed girl, she could very well have been a film actress.

Oh, you want a change in Indian government? What sort of change do you want? A Tamil anti-Hindu government? Wikipedia tells me that 85% of the people in Tamilnadu are Hindus. Is the historical value of Tamil not already established? What more you want to add to it?

If you are bothered by the fading system of castes, then vote for BJP. BJP wants to bring reservation on basis of economic status and not on caste. It is the Opposition including the Indian National Congress which insists on a nation-wide caste census. You should not support them. It was Rajiv Gandhi who told the Supreme Court that reservation should be based on caste. The Opposition wants to perpetuate the caste system.

 

[GoodAttention]

If it is English, then it leaves out the majority of Indians all over India including Tamilnadu.

Perhaps they are better educated in South India, but you are talking only of cities. Majority of Indians live in villages.
Nobody has been stopped for using the local language in any state, and English when necessary. UPSC and other organizations accept answers in nearly all languages of India. I have read about a person who cleared the IAS examination with Arabic as the language. People can use Hindi as the link language. No pass for fail for Hindi. Tamil has been using Sanskrit words for a long time.

What do you mean by Brahmanism and how does knowing or learning Hindi brings in Brahmanism? Does knowing or learning English brings in Christianity? Having used English all my life, has it made me a Christian? (Of course, I do not claim that I have the final solution for this problem)
That is not true. I love Tamil as my 'Chiththi'. Really. For me, all languages of India are sacrosanct, including the beautiful Urdu language.

I say Brahminism because it is usually this group in Tamil Nadu that has pushed for Hindi.

Anti-Hindi agitation of 1937–1940 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Oh, you want a change in Indian government? What sort of change do you want? A Tamil anti-Hindu government? Wikipedia tells me that 85% of the people in Tamilnadu are Hindus. Is the historical value of Tamil not already established? What more you want to add to it?
If you are bothered by the fading system of castes, then vote for BJP. BJP wants to bring reservation on basis of economic status and not on caste. It is the Opposition including the Indian National Congress which insists on a nation-wide caste census. You should not support them. It was Rajiv Gandhi who told the Supreme Court that reservation should be based on caste. The Opposition wants to perpetuate the caste system.

I do not want to change the Indian government, and the caste system cannot be changed in the hearts of minds of Indians overnight.

However, unlike others I see the reality of the BJP, which for all its merits, is still a government that champions Vaishnavism first. For me, this leaves no room for any other "Hindu" beliefs and history. By this I mean the Vedas and Sanskrit will always come first, and yes I know Saivism also holds these to be true, BUT to me Vaishnavism will always be a fallacy.

My only interest is in exploring the history of the Tamil language, and by extension Indian history itself. I am asking for the same support for Tamil that Sanskrit and Aryan theories are getting.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I say Brahminism because it is usually this group in Tamil Nadu that has pushed for Hindi.

Anti-Hindi agitation of 1937–1940 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I do not want to change the Indian government, and the caste system cannot be changed in the hearts of minds of Indians overnight.

However, unlike others I see the reality of the BJP, which for all its merits, is still a government that champions Vaishnavism first. For me, this leaves no room for any other "Hindu" beliefs and history. By this I mean the Vedas and Sanskrit will always come first, and yes I know Saivism also holds these to be true, BUT to me Vaishnavism will always be a fallacy.

My only interest is in exploring the history of the Tamil language, and by extension Indian history itself. I am asking for the same support for Tamil that Sanskrit and Aryan theories are getting.

I do not see anything wrong in Hindi being the link-language in India. All that anti-Hindi agitation has brought about is the supremacy of the Karunanidhi family and has made them obscenely rich. And now the grandson, Udayanidhi is the Deputy Chief Minister.
Is not Kannada used in Karnataka, is not Telugu used in Andhra and Telangana, is not Marathi used in Maharashtra, is not Gujarati used in Gujarat, is not Odiya used in Odisha, is not Bengali used in W. Bengal, is not Assmese used in Assam, is not Punjabi used in Punjab, is not Kashmiri used in Kashmir? Which state has not been allowed to use its local language? Then what is the difference in Tamilnadu? Has anyone objected to the use of Tamil in Tamilnadu?
Caste system cannot be abolished till reservation is on basis of caste. It can very well be on the basis of economic status. What happens now is that the rich reap the benefit which were supposed to reach the poor.
Strict Advaita Hinduism, which does not accept any kind of differentiation (be it humans, animals, vegetation or even non-living substances). I am a strong atheist and a staunch Advaitist. I do not except the existence of any God or Goddess, any prophet/son/messenger/manifesttion/mahdi from any God. What evidence does anyone have for it? If you want to abandon fallacies, then abandon them all. My community is largely Shaiva (Kashmiris).
At the moment, Tamil is used only as a political tool. I am aware of the history of Tamil. Perhaps the first written words in India were not in Kharoshti or Brahmi, but perhaps Tamil. I have read that writing in Tamil is as old as 600 BCE. You may know better about it.

 

[GoodAttention]

The timeline I am focused on is the following

(1) 3000 BCE and prior, specifically trade between Indian communinities and Ancient Egypt.
(2) 4.2ky event, and the movements of people around this time
(3) 1900 BCE when the migrations both into and out of, the Indus valley started

Any reference to dates later than this, example 1500 BCE or thereabouts, and any connection to the Exodus book of the Hebrew scriptures, I make zero comment on. I don't know about trade in ancient times, hence why I am also asking the questions.

Yes the 4.2ky (kiloyear) event, the time period circa 2200BCE-1900BCE is, in my opinion, very important since

(1) It is described and researched using scientific method that includes archaeology
(2) It relates to change in climate the resulted in the forced movement of peoples around the world (climate refugees)
(3) We have evidence of such movements of people in different areas of the world

In the Hebrew scriptures this is referred to specifically when describing

(1) Peleg - during whos time the "Earth was divided"
(2) The potential movement of the patriarchs from the Levant eastward
(3) Leading to the birth of Abram in a "foreign" place

Continuing the consideration of Tamil loanwords within the Hebrew Scriptures, I give my translations.

Peleg

பல்லக்கு​

pallakku n. Pkt. pallaṅka paryaṅka. [K. pallakki, M. pallakku.] Palanquin; ஆட்கள் தூக்கிச் செல்லும் வாகனவகை. தந்தப்பல்லக்குஞ் சிவிகையுந்

A palanquin is a covered litter, usually for one passenger. It is carried by an even number of bearers (between two and eight, but most commonly four) on their shoulders, by means of a pole projecting fore and aft. The word is derived from the Sanskrit palyanka, meaning bed or couch. The Malay and Javanese form is palangki, in Hindi and Bengali, palki, in Telugu pallaki. The Portuguese apparently added a nasal termination to these to make palanquim. English adopted it from Portuguese as "palanquin".


Reu/Rhagau

உர(க்க)​

ura VI; v. i.grow strong, firm, hard; be violent or boisterous, பெல.
உரக்க, உரத்து, adv. alcud.

This word is an adjective, the part I have highlighted would sound urakka, with the last letter dependant on the word being described.


Serug

சேர​

cēra adv. சேர்¹-. 1. Altogether,wholly; முழுதும் சேர வாருஞ் செகத்தீரே (தாயு.காடுங்கரையும். 2). 2. [T. cērika.] Alongwith, in company with; கூட (W.) 3. [T.cēruva.] Near; அணித்தாக. சேரப்போ.

The word is interesting because it describes the "joining together" or to make whole.


Nahor

நா​

nā நாவு, நாக்கு, s. the tongue; 2. the tongue or clapper of a bell; 3. the bolt of a lock; 4. the mouth-piece of a musical instrument; 5. flame, தீச்சுவாலை; 6. the middle, the centre, நடு.

ஊர்​

ūr s. a village, a town, புரம்; 2. a country, நாடு; 3. halo round the sun or moon, பரிவேடம்; 4. shield, கேடயம்.


The land of tongues, or the land of languages. Interestingly, the Tamils refers to Saraswati as நாமகள் (Namahal), or Daughter of the tounge/learning.


Terah

தாரகன்​

tārakaṉ n. dhāraka. Protector, preserver; ஆதாரமானவன்.

தாரகன்​

tārakaṉ n. tāraka. 1. One who helps in crossing or overcoming;


This one is the most fascinating in my opinion, because it answers the question as to who Terah was, and why he started the journey out of Ur Kasdim.

To me, the geneaology could reads as

"The Hebrews rejoined (our land) with fervor".
"The Hebrews made a great journey to join us"
"The Hebrew language makes great our land".

 

[Aupmanyav]

Sorry, friend. I do not seek meaning of Tamil words in Hebrew scriptures. You are welcome to do so.
For me, Palakku from Palyanka is OK.

https://www.learnsanskrit.cc/translate?search=palyanka&dir=au